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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Pancro IR Mirror + ND Filters

Iron Possum said:
Got you, thanks Pawel that makes sense.

Now, still don't understand why you'd need to go 5.65 square. If you're using a wide lens then you'd loose a filter stage at the back end to bring the bellows closer to the lens anyway. I cant think of a reason to go to that size unless you were using really big glass, but then you'd go 6x on all stages anyway surely?
Click to expand...

I'm perfectly happy with 4" x 5.65", it was Greg who wants it square and I don't know the reason for this either.

Greg?
 
It's because it's the biggest his MB20 will allow. Always smart for a filter that you know will be on the outside.
 
Just to check, again...it's recommended to get a 'hot mirror' and then in addition the ND's for behind. Not to get the IR coated ND's as they don't seem to be working as well with RED.

I have read a few different threads with mixed responses, but in saying this Pancro seem to be getting a good rap, think i might go with them.
 
Since the RED camera is effectively around 320 ASA, I would think you'd only need to get the heavier ND filters with the IR mirrors -- if the light level is low enough to only need an ND.30 to get from 320 ASA to 160 ASA, it's probably not very bright or hot outside, nor are you blocking that much visible light with the ND that you need to worry about having more IR than visible light get through the filter. I'd guess you can get ND.90, ND1.2, and higher with the IR blocking and use a regular ND.30 and ND.60 otherwise.
 
Yes you really dont need .3, and .6 w/ the IR coating. And no, I obviously wont rotate these, but as Mike said I am putting them in the front tray which is 5.65 X 5.65 (and a better fit for my 300mm and some of the smaller zooms that dont have to have 6X6). I already have a set of 4 X 5.56 ND from Schneider, so I figured since I had to buy a second set for the Red they might as well be the largest that will fit in my MB20II.
The set I already received from Pancro (.9, 1.2 and 1.5) are all 5.65 X 5.65, so to have a 1.8 in a different size upsets my analvision.

bris-vegas said:
Just to check, again...it's recommended to get a 'hot mirror' and then in addition the ND's for behind. Not to get the IR coated ND's as they don't seem to be working as well with RED.
Click to expand...

I always prefer to use as few filters as possible, which is why I ordered these Pancros which are IR + ND in one filter. I dont like to stack filters unless I have to. Thats my preference, but Ive seen guys that stuff more filters than trays in front of their lens.
 
I'd likely get just the IR, but I'd need both 4x5 and 6x6.
I already have ND.3-1.8 in both 4x5 and 6x6 and I'm not shy about stacking high-quality filters.
I think that the IR in 6x6 is a must-have. How else will you work with the Optimo or Master Zoom (or even an 18-100)?
Has anyone yest conducted a comprehensive test with the Panchros vs. the Rosco vs. the Tiffen IR options?
Cheers,
Harry
 
I dont think the Tiffens are available yet and the Rosco are just about to ship. Not sure what Rosco is doing, but they are awful cheap...my guess is you get what you pay for. I am very pleased with the Pancros (as a reference all of my existing filters are Schneiders) they are very high grade filters.

Yes, unfortunately I will have to order 6X6 too.
 
Just to clarify--Tiffen has released a beta version of their own IRND filters that appears to not be working for the current Red Cam IR fix. Please do not get this Tiffen release confused with our Pancro IR+ND filters. Pancro is a small independent, high-tech filter company and we will not release any product unless it works.
 
Hmm,
After looking at what Tiffen is putting out, let's get real here.
1. Tiffen's hot mirror spectral curve spans to 1000 nm (1 micron) in the infrared. However, the Red Cam needs IR filtration to at least 1200 nm.

2. Pancro's IR+ND filters cut the IR all the way to 2000nm ( 2 microns ).

3. There are two ranges of hot-mirror coatings available. One spans to 1000nm and the other spans to 1600nm in the infrared. Tiffen has gone with the first, the cheapest, because they must outsource all of their hot mirror coating.

4. Because Pancro has no need to outsource its IR+ND filter, Pancro kills on price, exactly half of what Tiffen and whoever are charging.

5. Pancro filters are not sandwiched (gel film laminated between two pieces of glass) as the Tiffen filters. Sandwiching ruins a filter's flatness and parallelism (front side to back side glass accuracy).
 
Pancro said:
Hmm,
After looking at what Tiffen is putting out, let's get real here.
1. Tiffen's hot mirror spectral curve spans to 1000 nm (1 micron) in the infrared. However, the Red Cam needs IR filtration to at least 1200 nm.

2. Pancro's IR+ND filters cut the IR all the way to 2000nm ( 2 microns ).

3. There are two ranges of hot-mirror coatings available. One spans to 1000nm and the other spans to 1600nm in the infrared. Tiffen has gone with the first, the cheapest, because they must outsource all of their hot mirror coating.

4. Because Pancro has no need to outsource its IR+ND filter, Pancro kills on price, exactly half of what Tiffen and whoever are charging.

5. Pancro filters are not sandwiched (gel film laminated between two pieces of glass) as the Tiffen filters. Sandwiching ruins a filter's flatness and parallelism (front side to back side glass accuracy).
Click to expand...

Tom has a point here.

Pancro advantage is that their filters are based on properties that, in theory, should outperform any other solutions announced thus far. Tiffen's solution, for example, can only reduce the IR contamination in narrow band, but can't eliminate it, like Pancro does. Pancro's metal alloy (I believe they use inconel) deposit has an advantage over other mirrors in that it is broad spectrum filter and effective at that. Inconel has also other nice properties such that it is hard as nuts and does not deteriorate easily like other metalic films do.

IR contamination is not only a problem with Red camera. It is a problem with any camera (including film) if heavy amount of ND filtration is applied. I use ND3.0 (Hoya) and ND4.0 (B+W) in still photography (Canon 5D and 40D) a lot. Most images are considerably contaminated with IR at this level.

I can't wait for my Pancro filters.
 
5. Pancro filters are not sandwiched (gel film laminated between two pieces of glass) as the Tiffen filters. Sandwiching ruins a filter's flatness and parallelism (front side to back side glass accuracy).
Click to expand...

They claimed this was a positive at NAB. Something to do with cleaning the filters and not hurting the coating. Not my area of expertise.

BTW - How does one order from the Pancro site? Call in only?
 
Pancro said:
Hmm,
After looking at what Tiffen is putting out, let's get real here.
1. Tiffen's hot mirror spectral curve spans to 1000 nm (1 micron) in the infrared. However, the Red Cam needs IR filtration to at least 1200 nm.
Click to expand...

I was the person responsible for testing the Rosco TruColor IR filter.



Without getting too specific, I tested Rosco formulas ranging from 600nm to 1100nm. I discovered that some more aggressive formulas actually cut too deep, resulting in less brilliant reds on my Macbeth chart and a visible blue-green vignette on wide angle lenses. I settled on a formula I felt was the best balance between cutting IR contamination and minimizing visible light artifacts. Subjectively, the Rosco TruColor IR allows a bit more visible red through that I feel is suggestive of the warmer look of Kodak film emulsions rather than the greenish “Ikigami” video look.


Despite my final choice of filter, I felt the RED One looked just fine with the original 600nm glass I tested, as I demonstrated in Mike Prevettes' original post on this subject. In my opinion, the RED One does not require a cut to 1200nm to produce excellent imagery with 1.8ND in the box.
 
Stacey Spears said:
They claimed this was a positive at NAB. Something to do with cleaning the filters and not hurting the coating. Not my area of expertise.

BTW - How does one order from the Pancro site? Call in only?
Click to expand...

Positive for their type of coating, not Pancro type of coating, which is resistant to abrasion in the first place. Ahhh...Marketing :)

PM or send email to Tom@....
 
hi,
i work with the red one camera and i want to buy the IR+ND Pancro filters set.
but i would like to know if i can found these filters in 4X4 format because the slots of my mattbox are 4X4.
thanks you
 
siwar said:
hi,
i work with the red one camera and i want to buy the IR+ND Pancro filters set.
but i would like to know if i can found these filters in 4X4 format because the slots of my mattbox are 4X4.
thanks you
Click to expand...


Hi Siwar,

I'm not sure if Tom provides them in 4x4. The store at the pancro website (http://www.pancro.com/) only lists them all in 4x5.650.

Might be worth calling Tom - his phone number is on the Pancro website. I called randomly a few weeks ago just with a quick question and he was very helpful - I'm sure he'd have an answer for you quickly, one way or the other.

Best,

P
 
Hi there!

Brian from Pancro here. We can make your filters custom in 4X4. We don't list it online because the most common size is 4.5.650 for the RED. Give us a call if you want to get that rolling- 530-464-4133 or email tom@pancro.com-Thanks!!
 
pancro is a great company
they were speedy in refunding me and sending my check asap
as i am shooting an indie feature and needed the money since they are backordered
and i had to pick up the tiffens
i cant wait and plan on ordering the pancros again
thanks pancro
and these tiffens are holding up but clearly yours would look better right now
 
Just order mine "budget set" ... Its on the way...
Thanks to Tom
 
Hey guys, by the way we have a great article on our site featuring Pawel Achtel. It has some great info on IRND filters and their application/proper use for Red. If you plan on using PANCRO IR+ND's now or in the future it is a must read regarding commonly held veiws in relation to IRND filter use and IR contamination-Check it out if you get a chance!Thanks!! http://pancro.com/#/mythbusters/4532015074
 
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