Owning a Red under 10k

[Elsie N]

Alex, great response thanks a ton!

My internal struggle right now is deciding on one of the cameras you just listed, I've found there is no perfect camera.

It's scary to think that I could buy a used MX that is 4 or 5 years old and it not be able to be repaired if something were to happen.

Ultimately, I'll need to do more research to see if I can find a suitable replacement for my Ursa mini.

My suggestion would be to buy the cheapest RED you can find and shoot it like you stole it. Then get familiar with the post process and IPP2 in REDCINE X or Premiere when they have it etc.

There are some pretty prominent people on REDuser that you would be surprised to learn still shoot on the older model cameras. Depending on what you shoot, you should be able to pay off the el cheapo RED in a short time.

And in time, you can get the bells and whistles models... maybe as used when their owners move to even newer tech... maybe brand new depending on your success.

 

[Zack Birlew]

For heavy use, an MX may be a riskier investment these days than someone who makes a movie or something only every now and then. I'm a narrative filmmaker, so I don't always have a cinema project going all the time so a RED One MX is a perfect high quality and low cost investment for me. If I were doing more consistent work that required a cinematic look with RAW, like commercials or music videos, then I would look at an Epic Dragon. Although, for practicality and price reasons I would go with another camera if that were the case and if Blackmagic wasn't an option, then the Panasonic EVA1 and Canon C200 would be high on the list along with a Sony FS700 or FS5 with a RAW recorder. To me, the Raven isn't worth it unless you can afford a starter RED that you could use at least for now and later upgrade the brain to something else. If I'm spending that much money then a camera with crop factor issues isn't something I would consider, it either needs to be S35 or FF. Still, RED has a great platform to invest in and, while it lasts from one camera generation to the next, it's great to have all of the accessories work across different brains in the line. Even though I have a RED One MX, most of the major accessories and cables I have will work if I get a DSMC1 camera and even a few things will work on DSMC2! That alone is worth a great deal in the long run. Hopefully that helps and, as it stands, the Epic Dragon may still be out of reach with a $10K budget but that, I think, will change very shortly with all the new options available not only from the competition but also RED's Weapon lineup.

 

[M.Halsell]

EOL RED products are not well supported. Out of warranty RED products are not a wise choice, repairs are costly and misc parts are difficult to source. Go with something in the the current product line. RED generally has a good upgrade incentive program for the most current models and RED rewards current camera model owners.

As mentioned, RED is a great product platform., but do not ignore that RED is a for profit organization. Comfortable ownership of a RED camera ownership requires an appropriate amount of discretionary income. Although one can currently purchase a used camera under $10k, ibear in mind the camera wasnt originally intended to exist at that price point. Don't be discouraged shopping in the discount bin, just don't be mad or sad if you buy used and find yourself with your pants down by your ankles.

 

[Terry VerHaar]

Terry, I'm in Springfield, Missouri.

I ask because I have been contemplating the sale of my Scarlet Dragon (very low hours) plus some of the supporting DSMC1 accessories. Honestly, I haven't really scoped out the market prices or figured out the package yet, but thought we could talk. Was hoping you were closer but at least you are in the U.S.

 

[Tim Michalak]

Great thoughts guys. You all definitely bring good points about buying some of the older generation red cameras. I think from what I'm seeing now, most of these kits are going anywhere from the 6500 to 10k range and it's hard to justify paying that much for a MX set up (fully rigged) when the camera itself is several years old, and many of the accessories are not supported or out of date. Perhaps when the scarlet MX gets closer to the 3,00 0 to 5,000 range it might be smarter buy then, that way if something were to break and not be supported, you're not out 10k like you would be now from some of the pricing I'm seeing on eBay.

 

[Richard Thompson]

Im in a very similar boat, had set aside for a Raven right before it was pulled and put into kit form for apple, have been looking used but very afraid of buying used

 

[Misha Engel]

Look at a camera that fits your budget and needs, we ended up with 2 ursa mini pro's + 2 Sony A7S2's.
Ursa mini pro is a lot better then Ursa Mini 4,6 k (we also looked at ursa mini 4k and 4,6k but we rejected them because of image quality, mainly chroma in the pixels, ir polution and fix pattern noise). We use the ursa mini pro's also for broadcast tasks.
The A7S2 is used for low-light and as a B-Cam.
For us the right RED's were (way) over budget (same is true for ARRI, Pana, Sony,...), Kinifinity might be a good option when you can get the right info and service.

 

[Tim Michalak]

Look at a camera that fits your budget and needs, we ended up with 2 ursa mini pro's + 2 Sony A7S2's.
Ursa mini pro is a lot better then Ursa Mini 4,6 k (we also looked at ursa mini 4k and 4,6k but we rejected them because of image quality, mainly chroma in the pixels, ir polution and fix pattern noise). We use the ursa mini pro's also for broadcast tasks.
The A7S2 is used for low-light and as a B-Cam.
For us the right RED's were (way) over budget (same is true for ARRI, Pana, Sony,...), Kinifinity might be a good option when you can get the right info and service.

I actually just sold my ursa mini 4.6k (not the pro) and my main camera right now is the a7sii. I was an early blackmagic user. I started with the pocket camera and worked my way up to the 4k cinema camera (one of the most underrated cameras) and then jumped to the 4.6k. I had several issues with my 4.6k, it was unstable to me. Fortunately I was able to get a good price out of it still. I could not stand the horrible magenta cast it had (tint slider did not fix it) and it was annoying to add IR cut to every lens I used. I'm glad to hear the pro fixed most of these issues.

 

[Tim Michalak]

Im in a very similar boat, had set aside for a Raven right before it was pulled and put into kit form for apple, have been looking used but very afraid of buying used

I'm not afraid of buying used as much as I'm upset about how the price of the raven sky rocketed after they re-released it. All the forms and YouTube videos talk about it being an affordable red around 6k and now it's not hardly possible to find the brain alone used for under 8k.

 

[Misha Engel]

I actually just sold my ursa mini 4.6k (not the pro) and my main camera right now is the a7sii. I was an early blackmagic user. I started with the pocket camera and worked my way up to the 4k cinema camera (one of the most underrated cameras) and then jumped to the 4.6k. I had several issues with my 4.6k, it was unstable to me. Fortunately I was able to get a good price out of it still. I could not stand the horrible magenta cast it had (tint slider did not fix it) and it was annoying to add IR cut to every lens I used. I'm glad to hear the pro fixed most of these issues.

Always rent first to test a camera.

Just rent the pro for a day end you will notice the big difference compared to the 4,6k and see if you like it or not.

Nearest competitor price wise on image quality is the RED Scarlet-W(better in low light).
BMD UMP ready to run: body, canon mount, PL-mount,Nikon mount, B4 mount, shimes, view finder, bat. plate, shoulder rig, mic mount, SSD Recorder, battery ~ $ 10.000
vs.
RED Scarlet-W ready to run $ 20.000+ (best camera in my opinion for around $ 20.000).

Raven is canon mount only so for us no option.

Old Red's are very old compared to new RED's

 

[Richard Thompson]

I'm not afraid of buying used as much as I'm upset about how the price of the raven sky rocketed after they re-released it. All the forms and YouTube videos talk about it being an affordable red around 6k and now it's not hardly possible to find the brain alone used for under 8k.

Im with you, had/have budget of about 10k and the price jump threw me also. Trying one of the Ursa Pro on wednesday To clarify, my fear of buying used is buying someone else headache that may or may not have any support

 

[Fahnon Bennett]

The day I read that they were ending support for the older DSMC1 bodies was the day I put my Scarlet MX up for sale. These aren't exactly small ticket items, and I would be very nervous getting a camera for $8k-10k that you can't get replacement parts for. I ended up with a C200, which is better in every meaningful (to me) way than my old Scarlet MX and I can have repaired by Canon if needed.

A DSMC2 Scarlet would be great, but I don't think you're getting a real kit under $10k...

 

[Brian Merlen]

i bought a used alexa classic and had the A com board fail. the repair is more then buying another used classic lol? sometimes stuff happens, insurance won't comp cuz its coded wear and tear. it works fine recording externally still? so even infallibly branded cameras can screw you. plus warranting them at 4 plus grand a year aint worth it either lol. id still suggest buying a used classic though, they rock

 

[Tim Michalak]

The day I read that they were ending support for the older DSMC1 bodies was the day I put my Scarlet MX up for sale. These aren't exactly small ticket items, and I would be very nervous getting a camera for $8k-10k that you can't get replacement parts for. I ended up with a C200, which is better in every meaningful (to me) way than my old Scarlet MX and I can have repaired by Canon if needed.

A DSMC2 Scarlet would be great, but I don't think you're getting a real kit under $10k...

I agree. At the end of the day, if I'm going to spend that much on a camera, it needs to have some sort of warranty or at least avenue to get it repaired from the manufacture at a reasonable cost. I think the market is in a very unique place right now for DSMC 1 cameras because most people are looking for replacement parts mostly and not full set ups.

 

[Alex Lubensky]

The thing is, if you are considering this amount (10k) as much for the stuff, i'd stick with something less pricy from the ground up. 10k for those is definately soooooo less (average starting point for most of those was way up 25 grand). The peripherals still cost some (lcd cable for any red is about 200$), the rigging, media. It's a dice, you never know what will happen to your camera on set, most of them are pretty heavy also (more than 10kg supplied). Heck, only one ultra prime costs way more than 10k even.

Think of EVA or C200 if you like run and gun, or don't like relatively big set-ups. Those cameras are for a crew, not one man band. But if you're looking for mostly lighting your shots, you do work with a crew mostly and do like a well set-up shooting, there's nothing more comfy then going Red or Alexa or whatever cinema camera there is. Those ones are for a film set, mind it.

 

[Richard Thompson]

would be nice to see some footage comparisons of the EVA1

 

[David Peterson]

raven, red one, scarlet, epic, and dragon flavors of scarlet and epic can all be found around that budget. brick and mortar stores add piece of mind regarding reputable resellers vs no name sellers. hell for 10k you can get alexa classics these days even

Good point, I've been seeing Arri Alexa Classics on eBay frequently enough lately for $10K or less!

But for sub $10K I'd probably be buying a Panasonic EVA1.

For us the right RED's were (way) over budget (same is true for ARRI, Pana, Sony,...), Kinifinity might be a good option when you can get the right info and service.

Kinefinity's latest camera is the Terra 4K and is astonishingly affordable! (even cheaper than the Terra 5K or 6K)

i bought a used alexa classic and had the A com board fail. the repair is more then buying another used classic lol? sometimes stuff happens, insurance won't comp cuz its coded wear and tear. it works fine recording externally still? so even infallibly branded cameras can screw you. plus warranting them at 4 plus grand a year aint worth it either lol. id still suggest buying a used classic though, they rock

Yikes! That sucks :-(

How long ago did you buy it, what did you pay for it?

 

[Aaron michaels]

This guy keeps posting this same thread over and over again.

 

[David Peterson]

yeah exactly what i thought.. the dsmc1 is red one status in my eyes.. so unless its an epic with the fan upgrade and the dragon sensor theres no other dsmc1 that seems worth considering unless its ridiculous rock bottom prices

If DSMC1 is RED ONE now..... what is now the RED ONE?!?! :-o

 

[William Long]

Buy a RED one for a pittance and deliver 4K. Just as an example, most (not all) broadcasters are asking for 2K digital delivery. Ask yourself who is my work for and then don't exaggerate on resolution and equipment cost. Common sense might save a lot of money.