OT for experienced Mac users

[Joe Carney]

I'm finally looking at getting a dual Xeon Mac Pro tower (the 8 core one listed at Apple). My question...
How difficult is it to upgrade the CPU's on my own. I have experience building PC, so removing/setting chips is not a problem. But I noticed the inside of the Mac Tower has the CPU's covered.

Any help is appreciated.

 

[Christopher Barrett]

You don't really hear about Mac Users upgrading processors... well not since I upgraded the one in my Power Computing clone... what more than a decade ago...LoL.

But there is this option.

 

[Thomas Koch]

When you do the math the cost of upgrading the processors it usually is more than the cost of the entire machine. I have a pre-westmere 2.8ghz 8 core and looked into upgrading to 3.2 and the cost was $2200 for the two 3.2 ghz processors. I paid $2200 for the machine new from Apple.

The cost of a single 2.93ghz westmere cpu at pricewatch is $1300. So for two of them it's $2600.

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

If you want to upgrade the CPUs now, you may as well suck it up and just order the system you want from Apple. Re-sale on Xeon CPUs you pull from a Mac Pro, even current Westmere 6-core models, is almost nil for some reason. And like Thomas says, Apple sets their prices where it makes little sense to order a base model and then upgrade CPUs afterward. For RAM and HDDs, it's obviously better to buy aftermarket. If you're in the market for a 512GB SSD the Apple option is a good one and reasonably priced, which is kinda unlike them. Haha. All things considered about Apple pricing, it's not that bad. Price out HDD, RAM and CPU upgrades from Dell, HP, etc.. Apple is right in line, often cheaper. People just whine about the Mac Pro being so expensive because, well, it is. But that's also because most people don't need a dual-Xeon monster workstation... Yet there's a gaping hole in Apple's product line as the all-in-one iMac doesn't cut it for those needing a desktop system.

If you're thinking of future upgrade potential, it's not a big deal. The fan housing that covers the CPUs is pretty easy to access and CPU swaps are very straight forward. I wish most PC's were laid out as nicely and built as well as a Mac Pro.

The best advice I can give regarding CPU options in a Mac Pro is to always get the dual CPU. Don't buy the quad or 6-core Mac Pro. When you buy the single CPU option, they don't include the CPU heatsink assembly or memory board for the second CPU. These are super expensive to pick up later from Apple parts and can even be unavailable -- Apple doesn't have any more for the '08 Mac Pros.

 

[Christopher Barrett]

a bigger deal... the dual CPU models always have twice the ram sockets

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

a bigger deal... the dual CPU models always have twice the ram sockets

Not just double the sockets, but double the bandwidth due to the interleaved memory systems.

Buying a single-processor Mac Pro is literally shooting yourself in the foot. For both current performance and future upgrades.

 

[Ben Holmes]

You will also invalidate your warrantee. Others in this position have built Hackintoshes. Including some here. I'll stick with my Mac Pros.

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

You will also invalidate your warrantee. Others in this position have built Hackintoshes. Including some here. I'll stick with my Mac Pros.

How so? Swapping RAM, drives and CPUs are upgrades clearly allowed in the Apple warranty and EULA. Interchangeable or modular WiFi, modems and Bluetooth, and any peripheral devices internal or external are also allowed, obviously.

You can buy CPU upgrades, fan assemblies and heat sinks through Apple Parts. And that's not just for when you buy a single-CPU 4 or 6 core Mac Pro and need to add the second CPU.

Now iMac, Macbook / Pro / Air, Mac mini, are all considered self-contained and there is no stipulation about CPU upgrades in those. In most cases they're fixed in place anyway.

 

[Joe Carney]

Thanks for the answers. My reasoning is this. I have a couple of Asus workstation mobo that can handle either i7 cpus or E series Xeons, so the existing ones wouldn't be wasted. With the new sandybridge performance cpus coming out mid year, traditionally Intel drops prices on existing stock to clear out inventory. Probably not much of a savings, but if I can upgrade to the lowest of the X series for a good price then it's worth it. If not, no problem.

My only real question was, is it difficult to remove the existing cpus and upgrade them. Regardless of cost or warranty issues. Sounds like it's pretty rare for Mac users to do that.

 

[Alexander Ibrahim]

Thanks for the answers. My reasoning is this. I have a couple of Asus workstation mobo that can handle either i7 cpus or E series Xeons, so the existing ones wouldn't be wasted. With the new sandybridge performance cpus coming out mid year, traditionally Intel drops prices on existing stock to clear out inventory. Probably not much of a savings, but if I can upgrade to the lowest of the X series for a good price then it's worth it. If not, no problem.

My only real question was, is it difficult to remove the existing cpus and upgrade them. Regardless of cost or warranty issues. Sounds like it's pretty rare for Mac users to do that.

Its rare for all the reasons stated above... but its pretty straightforward.

I'd say its easier than on most systems.

Of course... you probably won't be able to run Sandy Bridge processors on a Nehalem MB Mac Pro, and if you do manage it, you probably won't get much if any performance benefit.

I'd get the Mac Pro you need. I'd get Core i7's for the ASUS MBs. In a single processor configuration, performance of the i7 isn't very different from the single Xeon.

If I were Apple, I'd drop all the single processor Mac Pros from the lineup, and build a more typical desktop computer based around Core i series CPUs, especially with Sandy Bridge coming out.

Save Mac Pro for dual (or more) die package systems.

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

It's easy to do. Most who do it don't talk about it much as it's no big deal, just a CPU swap. But it is somewhat rare. Performance gains from most CPU upgrades in the Mac Pro are minimal and not worth the effort, time, money. If there is a significant gain, there's probably a difference in CPU series or model and they're incompatible anyway. I tried to put 2x2.93GHz 6-core Westmeres in a 2.26GHz 8-core '09 Mac. All the hardware is the same as the '10 Mac, but the ROM and EFI are different and those CPUs are not supported. The system would give me the grey screen, but would not chime or accept any keyboard startup keys.

So just a heads up that if you want to upgrade to the newer CPUs coming in May/June, they may not work in the system, even if they're socket-compatible. I'm betting on more than just EFI incompatibility though. Intel is releasing updated workstation and server chipsets along with them.

If you're thinking of upgrading to faster versions of currently supported CPUs, that may be an option. But like I said above, the performance gains are often minimal. And by the time the vendors start slashing prices, the newer CPUs will have already been out a while and will be readily available. The new ones will come out at the same price or cheaper than the current ones anyway. All vendor dependent, but it's the vendors who slash prices, not Intel. And deep discounts have not been too common with the last couple releases. Kinda like a a $1225 Xeon CPU has dropped to $1075 when the new model releases at $1200.

Sorry if I'm rambling on a bit. It's a situation that you can probably assess better once the next CPUs are available.

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

If I were Apple, I'd drop all the single processor Mac Pros from the lineup, and build a more typical desktop computer based around Core i series CPUs, especially with Sandy Bridge coming out.

People have been begging Apple to do this ever since the Mac Pro came out. The single processor Mac Pro just doesn't make sense. It's a complete waste of resources and an unnecessary performance hit just to save a few bucks. Many people don't need a monster tower with dual Xeons. But Apple's desktop solution is an iMac with a crippled GPU and no way to attach high performance storage or networking. They *NEED* a desktop computer with a single processor, using the cheaper i7 desktop CPUs, cheaper RAM, etc.. Here's a novel idea, make one that actually sits comfortably on a desk, has 3 or 4 PCI slots, a slimline optical bay, and 5 2.5" internal HDD trays. What should they call it? How about they just call it a "Mac" and everyone can be happy?

Save Mac Pro for dual (or more) die package systems.

Exactly. And while we're at it. Let's up the slots from 4 to 6 or even 7, making two of them double-width. Dump the optical bays altogether (yes, really). Give us enough SAS/SATA connections on the backplane where each drive tray can mount a single 3.5" HDD or two 2.5" HDDs. I bet without the optical bays up there and if the drive trays were rotated 90 degrees, we could fit 6 x 3.5" or 12 x 2.5" HDDs in the tower. Can we make it rack-mountable too. This setting two of them side by side on a rack shelf and taking up 22 units of space is a bunch of crap. I don't mind cutting the handles and feet off of them and sticking on rubber bumpers to the back side so I can stack them flat, but that still sucks and kills the warranty and resale value.

 

[Joe Carney]

Its rare for all the reasons stated above... but its pretty straightforward.

I'd say its easier than on most systems.

Of course... you probably won't be able to run Sandy Bridge processors on a Nehalem MB Mac Pro, and if you do manage it, you probably won't get much if any performance benefit.

I'd get the Mac Pro you need. I'd get Core i7's for the ASUS MBs. In a single processor configuration, performance of the i7 isn't very different from the single Xeon.

If I were Apple, I'd drop all the single processor Mac Pros from the lineup, and build a more typical desktop computer based around Core i series CPUs, especially with Sandy Bridge coming out.

Save Mac Pro for dual (or more) die package systems.

Sorry for not making this clear. Not upgrading to the Sandybridge, upgrading to a higher performance Westmere, just before the Sandybridge chips are released. Options for the current Mac Pro go up to the Hex core X series.

Anyway, thanks, I got the answers I needed. Easy to do if the CPU is supported.

So for me, it's down to a Mac Pro tower or HP Z600 with a similar configuration. I'm leaning toward the Mac, but not looking forward to the learning curve. But Best Buy has 18 month 0% financing (Mac). Hp doesn't. And I don't want to lease at this time.

Once again, thanks for everyones input. Much appreciated. BTW Alexander, when are going to invite me to your studio and school me on my D60?:seeya: