Oscar Nominations

[sam karr]

It's maybe time to stop living in the past and see what will be in 5 years time. What camera will give you the best tools to keep your art in the best shape for as long as you can?

I'm sure there was some painters who experimented cubism and impressionism decades or centuries before the 19th and 20th centuries but nobody will never hear of them. People have to be in the history at the right time. When the audience is capable of understanding and liking. Arri is totally in the right time. Red is a bit in advance. I guess the oscar nominations list speaks for itself. Or are all these guys totally stupid to use the Alexa?
The arri 65 is just for rent, for special projects. But they didn't abandon their product line, Amiras, Alexas and now mini. Different flavors. And they are just starting to be on the field for when 4k will be there for good. Red wants one unique camera. You can't please everyone with one unique camera.
I have a Red. I love it. I'm an early adopter type of guy since I'm a kid. Audio, video, computer, etc etc. I've got so many stuffs that were so in advance at those times and died. Brands disappearing because they didn't adapt. And because the followers took the plundge a bit later, at the right time. Red is taking all the risks for sure. They have to adapt fast now. And should work on incredible colors right out of the box. People here were already responding "the colors are fantastic, you can macth the Alexa anytime" back in the Epic MX time. Then Red made the Dragon, with "better color". I guess that was the proof that it was not there yet. And it's still not totally there.

 

[Christoffer Glans]

I'm sure there was some painters who experimented cubism and impressionism decades or centuries before the 19th and 20th centuries but nobody will never hear of them. People have to be in the history at the right time. When the audience is capable of understanding and liking. Arri is totally in the right time. Red is a bit in advance. I guess the oscar nominations list speaks for itself. Or are all these guys totally stupid to use the Alexa?

How is Arri in the right time when Red is the one who pushed innovation and the industry towards better digital cinema quality? Arri has done nothing but holding back innovation with comments like "1080p is good enough". The whole industry is on the edge of going 4K and companies like Netflix shows it. How is Arri "in the right time"?
The oscar nominations, as I said points to the fact that certain well known and long working cinematographers who has been shooting on film for a long time have a problem with shooting on anything digital that doesn't resemble what you get on film. Arri is the most film-like quality you get with digital sensors while Red, Sony and all others tend to push the boundaries when it comes to what is possible with digital technology. Arri "took care" of the cinematographers reluctant to jump into the world of digital. It's not about being stupid or not, it's the fact that governs why there are more Arri shot movies at the front field, it's because of the cinematographers, not the company. Arri just knows how to flirt with the legends and people with power in the film industry.

The arri 65 is just for rent, for special projects. But they didn't abandon their product line, Amiras, Alexas and now mini. Different flavors. And they are just starting to be on the field for when 4k will be there for good. Red wants one unique camera. You can't please everyone with one unique camera.

They aren't different at all. It's basically the same tech and it's all inferior to the technology now and especially when it comes to the coming years. Or are you saying that all the things you shoot now is ok that it won't hold up on future 4K screens? I think it's a shame that such good cinematographers shoot for what exists today, instead of doing like Fincher who masters his movies in 4K, making the quality "good enough" (to use the Arri term) for many more years than most movies shot on the Alexa. I'm not talking about context and story here, I'm talking about the technical quality to enhance the vision created, which is more than simulating 35mm film.

Red has one unique camera in that it's modular, you don't have to have three cameras for different purposes and that is much more innovative than Arri's method. I rather have one camera that can do it all than having to choose.

Brands disappearing because they didn't adapt. And because the followers took the plundge a bit later, at the right time. Red is taking all the risks for sure. They have to adapt fast now. And should work on incredible colors right out of the box. People here were already responding "the colors are fantastic, you can macth the Alexa anytime" back in the Epic MX time. Then Red made the Dragon, with "better color". I guess that was the proof that it was not there yet. And it's still not totally there.

Incredible colors right out of the box? This isn't a home video camera we are talking about. When shooting on 35mm film, do that generate a film strip that has colors "right out of the box"? No, it's a negative, it needs to be processed. Do we who work in the industry want "colors out of the box", no, we want options so that we can generate the image we want for the type of work that we do. If you want a camera that just makes "good enough" images out of the box, then no digital cinema camera is going to work for you.

The Red way, RAW, 6K, etc. gives so many options in post production. Yes you can shoot and render it "right out of the box", but stabilize, reframe, manipulate and color grade options makes Red far above what Arri can deliver. Red is most definitely the future of digital cinema. Arri has been copycating every move that others have taken, they are always a few steps back.
The netflix issue is a good example, even if someone wants to shoot their series on Arri, they can't, because Arri can't deliver true 4K.

I'm not sure in what way you think that Arri is in the right time?

 

[Mike S. M.]

I think the list of films "shot on red" at red.com isn't very truthful. A lot of them have plates shot on Epic, which isn't at all the same as the entire movie having it as it's primary camera. I think they should point out what the red camera was used for, because it's misguiding to just point out "they used it on it". Same goes for Oblivion, yes those plates outside the windows in the sky tower are shot with Epic MX, but the entire film is shot on F65... still, it has a place in the "shot on red" section at red.com?

I agree. I never understood why they do this. Don't they have enough movies truly shot on Red? I would think they do.

 

[Mike S. M.]

Panavision didn't bring a digital cinema camera to the market which was able to reproduce the workflow and close resemblance to film colors as Arri did. These DOP's had 1 camera to choose if they were to make an easy jump from film to digital. Red was harder on those who worked with film before.

This is not true. The Genesis has better color than the Alexa or basically any other camera. Because it's CCD based it's a true RGB 444 camera, unlikely all other CMOS cameras including the Alexa. Also the Genesis along with the Sony F35 which is similar and based on the same internals makes the closest footage to 35mm film from all digital cinema cameras. A combination of true 444, the grain and the global shutter CCD which has a motion cadence very close to film.

Unless you are not considering the Genesis because you consider it a Sony camera as it was probably made by Sony for Panavision.

 

[Christoffer Glans]

"Transformers 4", "Lucy", and "The Hobbit", obviously because they were all shot on RED!

Joking aside (I found those films pretty *meh* anyways)...

I did enjoy "Gone Girl" for its cinematography, but am very surprised "Interstellar" didn't get a nod - Hoyte van Hoytema's work was very unique by not only doing quite a lot of handheld IMAX camera work, but also mounting it as if it were a GoPro in many of the spaceship shots as well.

Lucy wasn't shot on Red, it was shot on Sony F65. Another misguide by the "shot on red" list. Plates doesn't equal an entire movie being shot on Red.
Interstellar should have gotten a lot more attention for many things, underrated movie.

This is not true. The Genesis has better color than the Alexa or basically any other camera. Because it's CCD based it's a true RGB 444 camera, unlikely all other CMOS cameras including the Alexa. Also the Genesis along with the Sony F35 which is similar and based on the same internals makes the closest footage to 35mm film from all digital cinema cameras. A combination of true 444, the grain and the global shutter CCD which has a motion cadence very close to film.

Unless you are not considering the Genesis because you consider it a Sony camera as it was probably made by Sony for Panavision.

There's more to it than colors. The Genesis were crap when it comes to workflow, just listen to Fincher. The ease of use with Alexa and the color and image quality was it's strong part together.
The F65 blow both Red and Arri out of the water with image quality... but the shooting workflow, not so much.

 

[Mike S. M.]

There's more to it than colors. The Genesis were crap when it comes to workflow, just listen to Fincher. The ease of use with Alexa and the color and image quality was it's strong part together.
The F65 blow both Red and Arri out of the water with image quality... but the shooting workflow, not so much.

Fincher was complaining about the SRW-1 workflow because it was tape. He was unhappy that he couldn't watch playback from the tape's original material because he was told it would degrade the material. Later the Genesis got the SSR-1 solid state recorder and the workflow is easier than ARRI RAW but definitely not harder. It's basically like the Codex, which the Alexa needed until it got the built in RAW recorder. I know because I have shot with the Genesis-SSR-1 and Alexa-Codex and I found the Genesis-SSR-1 combo no harder than the Alexa. And I think color is more important than resolution. Still the Genesis and the F35 produce the closest thing to the look of 35mm film if this is what you like.

 

[Craig W. Bickerstaff]

The Genesis was a popular camera, Sidney Lumet shot his last film on it and he loved the thing, you shouldn't dismiss it just because Lord Fincher didn't like it, he's a great film maker but he's not infallible, the Genesis was designed for HDCAM SR tapes though interestingly enough because of the way they designed the camera you don't need to use that anymore, the SR card things that Sony are making for their current cameras will slide right on them and if you don't want to do it that way you can always go through HD SDI into any box that will take it and get 444 Prores just like Alexa.
That said I think Alexa produces a better image than Genesis/F35.