Opportunity.

[Adam Beck]

I'm with Phil, Why should RED sink to a lower common denominator to supply a market that doesn't understand who RED is? RED makes Professional Digital CINEMA Cameras that professionals want and buy. They don't make iphones. If RED chose to focus on quantity instead of quality, it would only hurt their longevity as a company.

 

[Rob Ruffo]

If you feel that way, and it is a valid argument, then vote with your wallet and get a BMD camera.

If enough people do and RED thinks they are losing sales to it, then maybe they will do something.

My feeling is that RED feels there is no going backwards now.

BM has no respect at all for the business and the people who put huge investments and small ones to purchase their gear. They have the same attitude to indy gear owners like us that Walmart has toward small town merchants - which is to say callous disregard, and a love of the cheap and Chinese-made. They F---d all the post prod houses who bought Davinci for $125 000, then F---d all the smaller folks who paid $1000 for DaVinci Mac by releasing Lite with almost no difference for free. All that has done is lowered prices on grading so far that it is no longer really a career option at all in most markets. The only benefit is that wedding videos have nicer color grading now. And before anyone spouts the cliche that it should be all about talent - thats' not really how things work - its' not that simple, not at all - and besides - this is not the issue. Training is about talent - gear is a purely business investment - as a choice between owning or renting from others.

If you are a pro, or invest in gear, BM is not your friend. Vote with your wallet. Give them $0. Spread the bad word.

Arri and Red make sure that you do not have to be a financial moron or a rich kid looking to blow cash for kicks to buy their stuff. They protect their buyers with upgrades on a reasonable schedule that gives you a chance to amortize before the next big thing.

It's all about balance. $250 000 for an F35 was not enough democratization, but there is such a thing as too much - at that point the whole business goes down in flames - as only a hobbiest or someone clueless about business is willing to buy anything anymore - and who will fund the R&D?

 

[PETER ODIO]

BMDCC

BMDCC

Very interesting observations, I understand the strategy RED is following to focus their attention on 4K and greater and the PRO market. As a user I appreciate their efforts, products and leadership.

Again, I thing the idea of the Blackmagic Cinema Camera is very close to what many people waited for a long time for the Scarlet.

 

[adam r]

Yep I think the BM camera is exactly the reason why Red shouldn't make a S16 sensor. Imagine where they would be right now if they had. As well Kineraw and the Digital Bolex are coming online soon, this surely will saturate this market segment even more. Whilst I understand the desire by some to have Red wade into this territory, I personally believe it would be a lousy business decision given current trends in camera design. P.S. Peter there are so many camera choices right now, not all of them have to be Red, or Arri for that matter.

The Kineraw looks like a kitted out Red One ... only its 4K pixel binned down to 2K. ... years behind Red.

 

[David Rasberry]

Very interesting observations, I understand the strategy RED is following to focus their attention on 4K and greater and the PRO market. As a user I appreciate their efforts, products and leadership.

Again, I thing the idea of the Blackmagic Cinema Camera is very close to what many people waited for a long time for the Scarlet.

With Dragon sensor technology and the slightly smaller 5u pixel size, Red could produce a true super16mm sized sensor and camera shooting 2.5K.

 

[Brian Merlen]

The real question is if PS4 supports 4k why are we still talking about this? below 4k will soon be dead, JJ is right... and now Sony will help it happen..

 

[daniel caruso]

Thats interesting Brian, have to look into that.

I actually missed the release and ordering date by a couple weeks because I didn't bother to follow Scarlet's release hype due to the lower end camera specs. I am SO glad Red decided to deliver a camera that is still in their PRO line and is still considered a PRO choice for imaging. I would never want Red to go lower. As someone said, the market needs a certain balance I think for price vs. what is given. For all of us here, how can we get our day rates when the market will be flooded with 5000$ BM packages claiming to be the same. Red is a proven workflow with RAW imaging capable 110% of the time in a demanding professional environment. I just completed a 20 minute short this weekend and really cannot wait to begin colouring, the images are fantastic and beta software never failed once. Red does not need to support the lower market, nor would I want them to, period. They made it very affordable for owner operators in a professional world to have cameras. I like the two offerings they have, and cannot wait for more advancements in Red imaging.

 

[john jeffreys]

BM has no respect at all for the business and the people who put huge investments and small ones to purchase their gear. They have the same attitude to indy gear owners like us that Walmart has toward small town merchants - which is to say callous disregard, and a love of the cheap and Chinese-made. They F---d all the post prod houses who bought Davinci for $125 000, then F---d all the smaller folks who paid $1000 for DaVinci Mac by releasing Lite with almost no difference for free. All that has done is lowered prices on grading so far that it is no longer really a career option at all in most markets. The only benefit is that wedding videos have nicer color grading now. And before anyone spouts the cliche that it should be all about talent - thats' not really how things work - its' not that simple, not at all - and besides - this is not the issue. Training is about talent - gear is a purely business investment - as a choice between owning or renting from others.

If you are a pro, or invest in gear, BM is not your friend. Vote with your wallet. Give them $0. Spread the bad word.

Arri and Red make sure that you do not have to be a financial moron or a rich kid looking to blow cash for kicks to buy their stuff. They protect their buyers with upgrades on a reasonable schedule that gives you a chance to amortize before the next big thing.

It's all about balance. $250 000 for an F35 was not enough democratization, but there is such a thing as too much - at that point the whole business goes down in flames - as only a hobbiest or someone clueless about business is willing to buy anything anymore - and who will fund the R&D?

I understand your frustration, but its foolish to put money in technology and expect it to grow, or let alone hold its value. Its a field that constantly progresses, and you have to expect and embrace obselesence. If everything stayed expensive and inaccessible, film as an art form would stagnate.

 

[Sergio Perez]

BM has no respect at all for the business and the people who put huge investments and small ones to purchase their gear. They have the same attitude to indy gear owners like us that Walmart has toward small town merchants - which is to say callous disregard, and a love of the cheap and Chinese-made. They F---d all the post prod houses who bought Davinci for $125 000, then F---d all the smaller folks who paid $1000 for DaVinci Mac by releasing Lite with almost no difference for free. All that has done is lowered prices on grading so far that it is no longer really a career option at all in most markets. The only benefit is that wedding videos have nicer color grading now. And before anyone spouts the cliche that it should be all about talent - thats' not really how things work - its' not that simple, not at all - and besides - this is not the issue. Training is about talent - gear is a purely business investment - as a choice between owning or renting from others.

If you are a pro, or invest in gear, BM is not your friend. Vote with your wallet. Give them $0. Spread the bad word.

Arri and Red make sure that you do not have to be a financial moron or a rich kid looking to blow cash for kicks to buy their stuff. They protect their buyers with upgrades on a reasonable schedule that gives you a chance to amortize before the next big thing.

It's all about balance. $250 000 for an F35 was not enough democratization, but there is such a thing as too much - at that point the whole business goes down in flames - as only a hobbiest or someone clueless about business is willing to buy anything anymore - and who will fund the R&D?

I don't see this as alarming, Rob. Lets not forget that the software is only part of the equation of the whole grading process: Professional quality monitoring, a room configured to allow the most accurate perception of colors, output to diferent formats- from Broadcast standard HDCAM to Beta SP- and- yes- talent and experience of the operator as well as curriculum are all very big factors of professional Color grading, specially for Broadcast and feature film work. A "colorist"owning an accessible Da Vinci Software will not provide competition to the trully good Post Production houses- these houses are good because of all these factors and not because they simply "own" very expensive software and hardware. What the democratization of color correction, production, post-production, etc, with the likes of Da Vinci and the BMD cinema camera is allow a new generation of people to get in touch and learn the craft- by doing the low end stuff- without having to face a bit the previous "establishment" of how things were done in the industry. This talent, may they be "basement color graders", or no budget guerrila indies, provided they are good talent and go throught the inevitable learning process and experience, which takes TIME and needs perceverance - because we all know color grading, filmming, DP'ing, camera operating, editing, etc. are artforms in themselves and professions and like any craft require experience, maturity and constant learning- will end up in these post houses and Big Production companies, if these companies have the vision to Pick Up this talent.

Going back to the survival of the post-production/production industry as we know it, no filmmaker or television producer, IMO, is going to put their show at risk at a cheap post house that says they have resolve but no experience and portfolio. Only the low end stuff will take this chance. But one thing is for sure: This democratization of equipment will shake up the industry- it already has- and will make those that relied on gear to separate themselves from the rest while providing average services to feel in check from these startups that can use talent to overcome some lack of equipment issues. The big companies that can adapt and capture this flow of new talent that is coming are the ones that are going to survive and prosper, in my opinion. The others will unfortunately fall due to lack of competitiveness in quality.

That's obvioulsy my humble opinion !

 

[Elsie N]

All I know is that after RED dropped the fixed Scarlet, they have steadily overcome the backorder quagmire they were in at the time. Imagine where things would be if they hadn't shifted their focus to the Epic and Scarlet X. They would have a large customer base of low/no profit Scarlet fixed owners and an inferior (relatively speaking) X product line.

Sometimes you just have to jettison what's dragging the balloon down so the more important hardware can rise higher. At least, that's how I see it.

 

[PETER ODIO]

If enough people do and RED thinks they are losing sales to it, then maybe they will do something.

I did. Twice.