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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Opinions please. RED Pro Primes, The new Sony 4k PL's or Schneider Xenon FF-Primes.

Matt Ryan said:
Did I say industry standard? I think your seeing things. My very first question was what camera system are you buying for.... Because RED is all about increasing sensor size and if you think otherwise, maybe you should research the RED roadmap. S35 will remain the "industry standard" whatever that means, but why invest in glass that is on the end of the road for a RED system? FF secures your investment for longer than S35 will, and that's what really matters.
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I still completely disagree with your argument, and I'm also pretty sure I'm not seeing things. The Red road map shows different sensor sizes for different needs. S35 will still be the perferred option for cinema. A larger sensors has optical challangedes that most DoP's would like to avoid.

S35 for today and tomorrow. 645 and 70mm for special needs. FF35 for stills and low budget video.

I could be rude and ask you why you don't buy 645 or 70mm lenses, as they will secure your lens investments for _years_ according to the Red roadmap, but since I'm not that rude, I'll refrain from asking the question.
 
Phil Holland said:
Dragon's got the resolution and sensor size to be something else as well. It's more about having a digital cinema camera that contains many formats within it's sensor. For Dragon 6K is freakishly close to VistaVision, 5.5K is pretty much Mysterium-X 5K today, and 5K lands in that S35 realm. All provide a great 4K finish. The "format" is up to you though.
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I really share your view. I.e. the Dragon is exactly high enough for 35 Acadamy format... A lot of different formats can be shot with the sensor, I think Jarred mentioned that the formats would conform to regular film sizes this time around, a really wise move...
 
If you're concerned with the future technology advancement, don't be. Get what you like the most currently. Lenses hold their value real good unlike cameras. You sell them after a couple of years, and you don't lose nothing.
 
It is no brainer,
just get Full Frame lenses.
Canons CNEs are on Special Down under for $3000 per one.
I would still wait for Cine Xenons and really check quality of new lenses. Remember it took Schneider years to solve problems and come up with Cine Xenars 3. Do not preoder anything until you personally test it.
And it goes for anything these days.
Schneider Xenon look good,but lets wait and see...
 
Are the Sony's actually a real PL? I hear differently.
 
This thread disagrees. It says lens is actually a PZ (Sony's own style)...but it is only what I read not what I know. There is this from the same B&H link: "These lenses are designed for Sony's CineAlta 4K cameras, including the PMW-F5 and F55."
 
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The Sony CineAlta primes are proper PL primes and will mount to any PL camera lens mount. There were some issues with the earlier Sony PL primes built for the PMW-F3, but that is not the case with these lenses. AbelCine has these lenses and other lenses on display in our NY & LA showrooms for anyone to come in and test.

A note on the Schneider lenses. I was involved in the development of these lenses for a VERY long time. Lenses take forever to move forward on, and once a decision is made it can be like turning an aircraft carrier to make a change. We all knew what we really wanted out of the lenses from the beginning, but it took several years to make it to the Cine Xenar III. I am not involved in the new FF Cine Xenons, but I can state that Schneider is certainly a company that can learn from its own experiences. The Cine Xenars were the first new cine lenses from Schneider in decades and they really had to relearn a bunch of stuff, primarily on the mechanical end. They have now done that and I would hope that they hit the ground running with these new lenses.
 
Mitch Gross said:
The Sony CineAlta primes are proper PL primes and will mount to any PL camera lens mount. There were some issues with the earlier Sony PL primes built for the PMW-F3, but that is not the case with these lenses. AbelCine has these lenses and other lenses on display in our NY & LA showrooms for anyone to come in and test.

A note on the Schneider lenses. I was involved in the development of these lenses for a VERY long time. Lenses take forever to move forward on, and once a decision is made it can be like turning an aircraft carrier to make a change. We all knew what we really wanted out of the lenses from the beginning, but it took several years to make it to the Cine Xenar III. I am not involved in the new FF Cine Xenons, but I can state that Schneider is certainly a company that can learn from its own experiences. The Cine Xenars were the first new cine lenses from Schneider in decades and they really had to relearn a bunch of stuff, primarily on the mechanical end. They have now done that and I would hope that they hit the ground running with these new lenses.[/QUOTE

Thanks for the clarity.
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Mitch Gross said:
The Sony CineAlta primes are proper PL primes and will mount to any PL camera lens mount. There were some issues with the earlier Sony PL primes built for the PMW-F3, but that is not the case with these lenses. AbelCine has these lenses and other lenses on display in our NY & LA showrooms for anyone to come in and test.

A note on the Schneider lenses. I was involved in the development of these lenses for a VERY long time. Lenses take forever to move forward on, and once a decision is made it can be like turning an aircraft carrier to make a change. We all knew what we really wanted out of the lenses from the beginning, but it took several years to make it to the Cine Xenar III. I am not involved in the new FF Cine Xenons, but I can state that Schneider is certainly a company that can learn from its own experiences. The Cine Xenars were the first new cine lenses from Schneider in decades and they really had to relearn a bunch of stuff, primarily on the mechanical end. They have now done that and I would hope that they hit the ground running with these new lenses.
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Thanks for the clarity
 
Leica M Glass...24mm 1.4, 21mm 1.4...have it rehoused or buy adapter.
Also Voigtlander has got 21mm 1.8 chaep.
18mm not yet, BUT wait. How about Metabones adapter with some 15mm 2.8 and it will become 2.0( might have to change your mount ;-)
 
Kinda skimming through this thread. I personally do not have any experience with the new Sony primes. I hear they're OK. Optically similar to the last ones Sony did, but mechanically are better this time around. Anyway, have not seen them with my own eyes. Seen some stuff shot with them on the F55/ F65. Looks just fine.

I have owned the RPPs, all of them, 18 thru 300, since they were released. The 18 was the late-comer to the set and is the odd duck. It's the big guy. The 18 and 25 are larger than the 300 and 18 thru 35 are all three heavier than the 300. All things considered, they are great lenses. And that's not just speaking in terms of their great price, they would be great lenses if RED charged double or even triple what they did. Some people complain about the lack of witness marks, some don't mind. I'm in the don't mind camp because I always make my own markings while pulling focus and often don't pay attention to lens markings all that closely anyway. There are fixes for this -- just have a good lens shop (shameless plug for Duclos here) mark them up for you. There are a couple odd characteristics. The 18 thru 35 use a different internal design and focus mechanism than the 50 thru 100. So not only are the wider primes quite a bit larger and heavier, but they also show some different behaviors in terms of breathing and focus. This is not undesirable, we see the same sort of behaviors and differences between focal length design in the Cooke S4 and S5 lenses. The 18mm creates those groovy rainbow ring-flares on occasion. Some people hate them. It's not the only lens on the market to do this, and I don't even mind it, can even be interesting at times. But what I don't like about it is that it's the only lens in the set to do it. There is noticeable fall-off at 5K on the MX sensor with the 18mm, some units even show slightly clipped corners. On Dragon, the lens covers 5K just fine because the sensor elements are smaller. However, 6K Dragon is a bit larger than 5K MX, so we will most certainly see clipped corners with the 18mm on Dragon.

Now on to the Xenon FF primes! I will have these lenses as soon as they start rolling off the production line. I'm #1 in line at Duclos for a set. So we'll see what happens. I played with the 50mm at the RED booth at NAB and the 75 at the Schneider booth. It's hard to fully evaluate, but they looked promising and I really like the size and weight of them. Mechanically they seem excellent. To me they are a lot more attractive and a much more balanced set than what Zeiss is offering with their Compact Primes. I'll have reports when the lenses arrive. Hopefully about the same time as Dragon. :)
 
Thanks for your comments Jeff.

Can't wait to hear your thoughts on the new Xenons
 
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