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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Opinions on idea to add real film grain to MX footage.

If you do a post grain pass well, you shouldn't be able to tell the difference between that and real grain.

The idea of shooting some film to get a look to match to is a great one.

I've used the Foundry's F_ReGrain with good results for motion, and Alien Skin Exposure and Nik Software Silver Efex and Color Efex for stills.
 
Somebody has written up a guide to doing it in After Effects with a scanned piece of film shot on a 50% grey card

http://www.cinema5d.com/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=8348

It's convincing in 1080P on TV. I'm sure it would be convincing in Cinema at 2K resolutions as well.
 
Andrew Rieger,

There's a product called CineGrain Film Library that is a two terabyte hard drive of professionally scanned 35mm, 16mm, and super 8mm film negative that's meant to be used over high quality digital content. This is the exact solution you're looking for.

You would simply import a file, put it on another video track above your red footage (in FCP, AE, Avid, Motion, etc.) change the grain layer to Composite Mode > Overlay.

You now have REAL film grain over your Red Footage.

This is how the pro's do it.

There's also other clips like Flash Frames, Light Leaks, Lens Flares, Roll Outs,
Dirt & Scratches, Head & Tail Leader, Bad Registration, Hand-Crank, Full Gate With Keycode, And Many More Film Artifacts.

www.cinegrain.com

Hope this helps.

Nick Grosvenor
Partner
www.cinegrain.com

We're at NAB 2011
Booth # C7120
 
Nick. Had a look at your site. Really like the sound of this.

Can't make it to NAB, do you have any reps in Europe?
 
Tim Hole said:
Nick. Had a look at your site. Really like the sound of this.

Can't make it to NAB, do you have any reps in Europe?
Click to expand...

Thanks Tim,

We don't have reps in Europe yet, if you have any questions give us a call from the number listed on our website, or email us and we can arrange a skype call, we can ship to europe, and if you ever come over to the USA, Santa Monica specifically, let us know and we'll take you out for a beer.

Nick Grosvenor
Partner
www.cinegrain.com

We're at NAB 2011
Booth # C7120
 
I would most definitely do this digitally, it will give you a lot more control over the look of the film and the film grain that you're adding. There are built in options for Nuke or Shake (I recommend Nuke), and probably even After Effects and Color. You could also probably use any of those softwares to overlay actual captured (or stock) grain... a lot cheaper, and would make a lot more sense, and like I said - allow you to maintain control. If you have any specific questions about that process, shoot me a message, it's not very complicated. cya!

also, for matching your grading... think about taking a 35mm still camera and taking a reference shot for each shot. that could be cool reference, or at least good for behind the scenes.
 
Andrew Rieger said:
For this short he wanted to go with film but shooting the whole thing in 35mm out of his budget. He has decided to go with the MX because he has a friend who owns one and will let him use it for the shoot but he still wants the short to look like it was shot on film. He is going for a very gritty Children of Men look with pronounced grain.
Click to expand...

So, it sounds like he is getting the camera for free, and is he planning on doing all the post work himself- so that there is no cost there as well? If everything is free, and it is not costing him anything, then I can see his point about cost. But if there is an expense here - gear, post, etc- then I would argue that shooting on film would be the best solution. 35mm is out of the question- no problem- shoot 16mm. He is after the grainy look- then 16mm will help him even more with that. Rental on 16mm gear (at least where I am at, is SUPER cheap, they almost give it away at the rental houses.) 16mm short ends are cheap to buy as well, and then processing at a place like Cinelicious ( http://cinelicious.tv/ ) is very affordable. The rates for shooting on 16mm many times are actually cheaper then shooting on Red. If he has money to spend, then I strongly recommend shooting on film, as that is the look he wants and that will be the best way of getting there at the most affordable price. (But that is if you are paying for rentals- if it is all free then this is a moot point.)

Otherwise, CineGrain looks like your best option. Although I have not used it, I just took a look at their site now. I have been less then pleased with Color's grain in the FX room- it doesn't look anything like the real thing IMO.
 
I would argue that shooting on film would be the best solution. 35mm is out of the question- no problem- shoot 16mm. He is after the grainy look- then 16mm will help him even more with that.
Click to expand...
Totally agree with Ryan, If you can shoot 16mm, do it, it'll look gritty and cool. Film is a great experience, it's poetic to look at and it's poetic to shoot. It's a dying art. We know Paul and Steve over at Cinelicious, those guys are awesome. Use them for Post.

I have been less then pleased with Color's grain in the FX room- it doesn't look anything like the real thing IMO.
Click to expand...

Can't agree more. It's not real film.

Otherwise, CineGrain looks like your best option. Although I have not used it, I just took a look at their site now.
Click to expand...

Thanks Ryan, if you're ever in Los Angeles, or at NAB, let us know and we'd love to demo it for you. Bottom line, Film is the best look, if you can't afford to shoot film, shoot the highest quality digital as possible. (MX, Alexa) Then overlay film grain or artifacts, to get the look you're going for.


__________________


Nick Grosvenor
Partner
www.cinegrain.com

We're at NAB 2011
Booth # C7120
 
For that sort of purpose I often use GenArts Sapphire Stylize Film Effect plug in for FCP:

Effect: FilmEffect

Category: Stylize

Simulates film exposure and processing to make video look like it was shot on film.

S_FilmEffect

Provides a physically accurate model of film exposure and processing to make your video footage look like it was shot on film.

It can remove field artifacts, perform color correction for specific film types, add film grain, and apply glow or soft focus effects.

The color correction and grain can be selectively disabled using the Scale CC and Grain Amp parameters.

In the Sapphire Stylize effects category.


Inputs:

Source: The clip to be processed.


Parameters:

Neg Film: Popup menu, Default: Kodak_5245.

Selects the negative film stock.

None: Ignore any effect of negative film. This is not normally useful unless you also select None for the print film to disable both.

Kodak_5245: Eastman EXR 50D, low speed, daylight balanced, very fine grain.
Kodak_5246: Kodak VISION 250D, higher contrast, medium speed, daylight balanced, fine grain.
Kodak_5248: Eastman EXR 100T, medium speed, tungsten light balanced, very fine grain.
Kodak_5274: Kodak VISION 200T, medium speed, tungsten light balanced, fine grain.
Kodak_5277: Kodak VISION 320T, lower contrast, medium speed, tungsten light balanced, medium-fine grain.
Kodak_5279: Kodak VISION 500T, high speed, tungsten light balanced, somewhat grainy.
Kodak_5284: Kodak VISION Expression 500T, lower contrast, high speed, tungsten light balanced, medium grain.
Kodak_5289: Kodak VISION 800T, very fast, tungsten light balanced, grainy.
Kodak_5293: Eastman EXR 200T, reduced contrast, tungsten light balanced, medium grain.
Kodak_5298: Eastman EXR 500T, high speed, tungsten light balanced, grainy.
K_SFX200T: Special effects film, medium grain.
Kodak_5217: Kodak Vision2 200T, tungsten light balanced, fine grain.
Kodak_5218: Kodak Vision2 500T, tungsten light balanced, fine grain.

Print Film: Popup menu, Default: Kodak_2383.

Selects the print film stock.

None: Ignore any effect of the print film. This causes the negative to be output directly. If the negative film is also set to None, the color correction and grain are disabled.
Kodak_2383: Kodak VISION Color Print Film, rich blacks.
Kodak_2393: Kodak VISION Premier Color Print Film, rich blacks, some grain.
Kodak_2395: Kodak VISION Color Teleprint Film, low contrast.
Kodak_5386: Eastman EXR Color Print Film (discontinued by Kodak, replaced by 2383).
Kodak_5285_Rev: Ektachrome 100D Reversal film, daylight balanced, high contrast and grainy. Note that the negative film is ignored when using reversal film.
Kodak_7270_Rev: Kodachrome 40 Movie Film, tungsten balanced reversal film, high contrast and somewhat grainy. Note that the negative film is ignored when using reversal film.

Get more >>>
 
Fabricio Morato said:
Hi,

there's a lot of packages that allow you to do film grain in post production.
I personally like the froundry's built in regrain in nuke and their furnace f_regrain!

Don't know what package you will be using, but for AE there's some pretty decent ones also...


Hope this helps
Click to expand...

Second the suggestion of The Foundry's Re-grain... comes with Furnace core for FCP or as part of a larger Furnace package for AE or Nuke. very good tool. and as already stated, this technique is used all the time to blend elements in comps in addition to adding grain to entire scenes.
 
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