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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

On Set Data Management

Chris Parker

Chris Parker

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Just about to get to work on my on-set data management setup for the REDs I am expecting, and am looking for any advice from those with experience.

I am torn between running a Mac setup or a PC setup. I am also torn as to how deep I should go with my on-set services offering. (i.e. should i simply copy and backup the files, or should i offer SOME colorizing services? should i go all out and offer file transfer to another format the following day?)

To be honest, I am now planning on leaving the whole transfer to another format job to the transfer houses in town, or to the editor, but I can't really decide if this is a service I should also offer.

Any help, advice, and comments are appreciated....
 
skipdivils said:
Just about to get to work on my on-set data management setup for the REDs I am expecting, and am looking for any advice from those with experience.

I am torn between running a Mac setup or a PC setup. I am also torn as to how deep I should go with my on-set services offering. (i.e. should i simply copy and backup the files, or should i offer SOME colorizing services? should i go all out and offer file transfer to another format the following day?)

To be honest, I am now planning on leaving the whole transfer to another format job to the transfer houses in town, or to the editor, but I can't really decide if this is a service I should also offer.

Any help, advice, and comments are appreciated....
Click to expand...

I think the main advantage of a Macbook is going to be Final Cut Pro. I have on occasion had the DIT put a few shots on a timeline and cut them together when we felt we had an issue with coverage or the axis. With FCP and Redcode proxies you can do this immediately.

I'd like to here someone weigh in on PC's. A panasonic toughbook for example seems like an attractive thing to have on set.

IBloom
 
As for the cutting option within FCP, that is good, but I already have a full HD Video Assist cart that goes out on set as part of the package. This cart has Final Cut pro already built in, among many other little HD toys. But it is for video assist only. Rough cuts to check eye lines and all that stuff are done through video assist on the sets I normally work on.

I do suspect however, that I will find myself on lower-budget shoots with my RED package, and these lower budget shoots won't want the expense of my video assist unit, so for these shoots, I bet having the ability to quickly cut a couple of shots together with FCP would be useful.

I am looking also for specific advice on your on-set data management 'system' for larger budget shoots. (i.e. the AC hands you a full card and asks for an empty card....what do you do with the full card to back it up and make it empty?)

And, at the end of the day, what do you give to production? A hard drive with the .r3d files on it? Do you offer any follow up service? Where do they take this footage.

Many post houses (especially the big ones) do NOT deal with .r3d footage here. hell, they don't even deal with HD masters, and DEMAND production give them footage in SD.

What do you guys do?
 
skipdivils said:
As for the cutting option within FCP, that is good, but I already have a full HD Video Assist cart that goes out on set as part of the package. This cart has Final Cut pro already built in, among many other little HD toys. But it is for video assist only. Rough cuts to check eye lines and all that stuff are done through video assist on the sets I normally work on.

I do suspect however, that I will find myself on lower-budget shoots with my RED package, and these lower budget shoots won't want the expense of my video assist unit, so for these shoots, I bet having the ability to quickly cut a couple of shots together with FCP would be useful.

I am looking also for specific advice on your on-set data management 'system' for larger budget shoots. (i.e. the AC hands you a full card and asks for an empty card....what do you do with the full card to back it up and make it empty?)

And, at the end of the day, what do you give to production? A hard drive with the .r3d files on it? Do you offer any follow up service? Where do they take this footage.

Many post houses (especially the big ones) do NOT deal with .r3d footage here. hell, they don't even deal with HD masters, and DEMAND production give them footage in SD.

What do you guys do?
Click to expand...

Ah the system! I thought you meant the system like the computer. You mean "protocol". I have a wiki article from an earlier thread that tj williams spearheaded here's a link:
http://www.redhax.net/wiki/Footage_Protocol_On_Set
I have to add the syncing software to this but it's mostly here.
I have my own ideas that I kind of detailed here a couple months ago:
http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=5540
And finally there is a tremendous amount of info in this thread:
http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=6243

IBloom
 
I just wanted to add a quick comment here -

After we shot non-stop on a real variety of stuff for three months with our cameras - one of the clear conclusions we came to - was that you are not always going to want to use the exact same data management/back-up and system/tools for every job.

Commercial and Fashion shoots need, and expect a much different experience than an independent feature. And a studio feature film has a much greater expectation and budget.

The basics are, of course, making clones (and verifying) the media in an efficient and secure way and your choice for on-set CLIENT review - which can be done several different ways. Commercials expect a professional HD monitor and LOVE seeing pixel for pixel via REDCINE + PSHOP on a 30".

We are currently designing and looking at options for creating a "fly pack" on-set server/encoder/storage for features as there is so much down time for the "RED TECH"- our guys become "CF card copy monkeys" - so, we will provide a solution with has REDCINE project files for EACH DAY of the film on set all the time - and we will create dailies in the background while shooting.

There will be software tools emerging - we are AGGRESSIVELY developing one - and others will too - so, get the basics down - and be able to scale and offer different clients different options -
 
That is what I was thinking too Mark. Different clients will need different options for sure. I am sure a few people will be coming out with 'off-the-shelf' solutions, and that is what I would be interested in. When are you planning on having yours done? I already have a friend who I met at Vlad Eugene's event in LA a while back that is developing something that may work for me, but at this point, I want to look at a few options, including what I could build myself.

Some clients will want simple, CHEAP, storage backup only. Some won't.

Some will want dailies creation with a one-light done. Some won't.

Some will want data tape backup done. Some won't.

Some will want LUTs that are developed on the day with the DOP and sent to the transfer house with the footage. Some won't.

I am trying to figure out HOW FAR down the pipeline I want my services offering to go before I just say to my clients, 'you know what, we don't do dailies creation, so just take this drive down to so-and-so and they'll hook you up'. Know what I mean?

This is why I am asking for the advice of all of you with the months of experience in this for some help with a good starting point for my system. Thanks for all the help so far ibloom and Mark. You guys seem consistently offer the most useful info. for me around here.

It is appreciated.
 
skipdivils said:
Just about to get to work on my on-set data management setup for the REDs I am expecting, and am looking for any advice from those with experience.

I am torn between running a Mac setup or a PC setup. I am also torn as to how deep I should go with my on-set services offering. (i.e. should i simply copy and backup the files, or should i offer SOME colorizing services? should i go all out and offer file transfer to another format the following day?)

To be honest, I am now planning on leaving the whole transfer to another format job to the transfer houses in town, or to the editor, but I can't really decide if this is a service I should also offer.

Any help, advice, and comments are appreciated....
Click to expand...

Hey Chris

I'd leave the "deliverables" to the Technicolor's of this world. Although they are slow to get on this, I think they are quickly figuring it out. After all, what will they do when there is no more film to transfer? :shifty:

I think the "option" to colour correct should be there. On a busy shoot day, the last thing you want to be spending your time on is colour grading. There is a much better time/place an people to be doing this. Although, there are times when you want the ability to say "look, this is what you'll be able to do in the final grade..."

I believe that the "Video Assist" position is the most logical one to transform in to the "data management" position... a la Fincher and his Zodiac model.

Hope you are well!

Dylan Macleod, CSC
Cinematographer
Toronto, Canada
www.dylanmacleod.com
 
skipdivils said:
I am trying to figure out HOW FAR down the pipeline I want my services offering to go before I just say to my clients, 'you know what, we don't do dailies creation, so just take this drive down to so-and-so and they'll hook you up'. Know what I mean?
Click to expand...

Yes I do.

And we are planning to offer an entire menu of "over the counter / service bureau" .r3d processing services with screaming fast turnaround in our new facility for people shooting RED anywhere - in addition to cameras, support, grading, VFX, audio and complete production services.
 
Dylan,

I completely agree with you. On-set color grading has to be an 'option', and not the norm. And I would NEVER profess to be a colorist. They are artists. I would liken it to doing on-set compositing through video assist. We show ROUGH examples of what can be done. Then the VFX people make it look perfect. Same with color I think. We can play around (ONLY at the DOPs discretion) but leave the final look to the high end colorist in his blacked out room with all the right tools.

I could see it taking the place of the DOP shooting stills after each setup. Instead of shooting a still, loading into Photoshop, and printing it out as a reference, we could grab a still from RED Alert or RED Cine of the ACTUAL scene, bring that into photoshop (or put a rough look on it in REDCine itself), and then use that as a reference for the colorist. This is as far as I was thinking of taking it....on the types of jobs YOU work on.

There will be the lower budget shoots that want to shoot RED, but cannot afford Technicolor's services, which is where I was wondering about offering the one-light colorized dailies (or HD Files with a one-light put on them through REDCine or Scratch). The high end commercial shoots should definately go to Technicolor.

Great to see you on here Dylan. Hope to see you out on set soon. When our REDs come in, let's hook up and do some testing...if you are interested.

Mark, I will come to NY soon to meet you. I swear I'll find the time. There is much I would like to talk to you about.
 
Hi

I'm working on this, too. Expect a software utility soon that takes care of downloading, checking and organizing your footage ;-)

I would welcome it if you could save a "processing setup" or template in Redcine or Redalert. Meaning you do a basic color grade and set the output format and size on the set but don't render it yet.
You then could assign a template to a R3D file with a small utility. It would be enough if it just made a link to the template in the meta-data of the Raw-File.

You could then send your footage to an offsite render farm where they are batch-processing all your footage and convert it into the format specified in the template.

This way you have complete control over your footage and don't have to worry about anyone else messing around with your stuff.

It would be great, too if Redcine would support network-rendering similar to Autodesk's backburner.

-Simon
 
Is there a plan to represent the one light grade as ASC CDL values so they can be tracked durng editorial and returned to the conform station as a starting point?

Michael
 
MichaelP said:
Is there a plan to represent the one light grade as ASC CDL values so they can be tracked durng editorial and returned to the conform station as a starting point?

Michael
Click to expand...

Yea, like those punchcards that you get from the Hazeltine. Just a modern version :)
 
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