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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Older Glass with the upcoming Epic S35 & Scarlet S35

T

Todd Anderson

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Is there going to be a viable way to use older cine glass (like say Zeiss Standard MII's, Cooke Speed Panchro S2/3's or a Cooke 20-100mm Zoom, which cover a smaller image circle) with the upcoming Epic S35 & Scarlet S35 with its lager sensor? Meaning, will there be either a specific window or cropped mode of some sort to deal with this? Or, is this basically as simple as using custom framing guides and/or a mask that one could generate and set up in the viewfinder to use just the cropped portion of the sensor which doesn't vignette or porthole? If so, any foreseeable issues in post with the above method?

Thanks,
Todd

p.s: And I realize one wouldn't get all that full 4.5k oversampling goodness...
... something called "RED One Classic S35 mode" or something???
 
You'd probably test all your 35mm cine lenses in prep to see which vignette on the 30mm x 15mm sensor; then you can decide whether you want to record the full sensor area and just reframe in post to remove vignetting, or pick a smaller recording size that stays within the coverage of your lenses.

I think the vignetting is only going to be a problem with the wider-angle cine lenses anyway, so perhaps you just need to get some in those focal lengths that cover the 30mm x 15mm sensor.
 
Hi David. Thanks for the response.

Can you be more specific as to how customizable the options are with regards to "picking a smaller recording size" and the various controls you have in camera to add guides and or masks where you want them (I would imagine this has been addressed in the RED One already). Meaning, I'm assuming you have some sort of control to make something that would resemble "interchangeable ground glass" markings for the various recording modes (be that 4k, 3k, or 2k) and various aspect ratios. Do I assume correctly? Can I reposition the guides (2mm in from each side, for example) where I please? Worst case, I do realize that I could mask the LCD viewfinder with tape and shoot a framing chart... but I imagine something more sophisticated exists in camera.

I already have some older glass I would like to salvage for a future Scarlet S35 kit is the reasoning behind the questions.

Thanks again,
Todd
 
I don't know what the recording options will be for these cameras.

But you could record the biggest picture possible and do some sort of global crop if you wanted to.

Personally, I wouldn't use different GG markings for different lenses, etc. -- that would make post very confusing. If most of my lenses covered the full sensor area, I'd record that and for wide-angle lenses with a little vignetting in the corners, I'd just compose those shots with the idea that they will need a little cropping in post, i.e. a little looser.
 
Yeah, David. I wasn't suggesting having different GG markings for different lenses for a particular shoot. Just globally. Kind of a lowest common denominator sort of thing. But I see how your solution with just framing the wide angle stuff a little looser may work fine.

I am still a bit curious as to if any of the features regarding guides and masks exists currently on the RED One as mentioned in my prior post. Maybe someone else from the forum could answer that one?

I have to admit that I'm a bit particular when it comes to guides and such. I actually spent $2,000 on a 'clean' (1:78 only) ground glass for my used Aaton XTR because I couldn't stand how those cameras came with a permanent universal ground glass with R16 / S16 / TV safe pumpkin; 1:66 / 1:33 / 1:78 and all that. It was ridiculous trying to use vertical and horizontal elements in your composition in the tradition of "rules of the thirds" and golden triangles and all that with hard lines, dashed lines, boxes, and crap in there already ... drove me crazy! But that is another story...

Todd
 
What is the view of the Cooke Varokinetal and Zeiss 10-100 T2 (converted for S16mm) Zoom lenses for use with Scarlet ?
 
Dave, are you referring to the 2/3" Scarlet or the S35 Scarlet? As for the 2/3" scarlet, most likely you would be able to cover the full 2/3" sensor with just a regular 16mm lens (non S16 converted). Which in beneficial because the lenses on the used market are quite a bit cheaper and they would also be slightly faster. The Cooke 9-50mm is well regarded as breathing very little and is sharp with that "Cooke Look". The Zeiss 10-100 T2 came in a MKI (80mm front) and MKII (87mm front) version. The MKI breathed quite a bit and had some other issues. Neither of the Zeiss's have internal focusing if that matters to you (the front element moves in and out). Zeiss is more well regarded for their primes than their zooms as a rule of thumb. There are more modern S16 zooms from Angeneiux and Canon. That being said, because the 10-100's can be found today for a very good price, I would still pick one for that reason, perhaps.

quiktom, I think the 28k sensor is a ways off. The 645 sensor could use medium format still camera lenses. The 28k model, because of its price point, is probably going to be a very specialized item. I imagine if no lenses exsist, RED would develop them. I think the 28K sensor is a bit of a marketing ploy at this point. Meant to show the breadth of their thinking and their program.

If anyone still has any answers to POST #3 above, I would welcome them.
 
Todd Anderson said:
quiktom, I think the 28k sensor is a ways off. The 645 sensor could use medium format still camera lenses. The 28k model, because of its price point, is probably going to be a very specialized item. I imagine if no lenses exsist, RED would develop them. I think the 28K sensor is a bit of a marketing ploy at this point. Meant to show the breadth of their thinking and their program.
Click to expand...

Todd, RED's 28k 617 camera is a 'large format' camera and there are quite a few lenses made for that format. Here is a quick ebay search:

www.shop.ebay.com/large+format+lens

In the original DSMC announcement RED listed the Epic 617 as having Linhof, Alpa, and RED 617 mounts.
 
Hey Justin. You must be right. I honestly have never used a 617 format camera. But seeing how that would translate to a 6x17, it makes sense as I took one look at the 'odd' panoramic size sensor and thought it was unique. I see it says, 168mm x 56mm.

Still looking for an answer to POST #3.

Thanks,
Todd
 
Hi,

Unless you can shoot S35 size then the cameras would be dead out of the gate, that's not going to happen.

Stephen
 
Todd Anderson said:
Still looking for an answer to POST #3.
Click to expand...

The camera hasn't been released yet so it's a bit early to get into the nitty-gritty of the menu options. I'm sure the framing guidelines are variable/adjustable and considering that the RED ONE records sensor width's from 2K, 3K, 3.8K (4K HD), 4K, up to 4.5K, etc. I'm sure the EPIC and Scarlet will have similar variations near and up to full sensor.
 
Sorry. I meant to imply if there are similar features already in the RED One software menu options: adjustable guides and masks, etc. I would then just assume that they would be on the new Epic and Scarlet to at least the same degree, if not more advanced. I've just heard talk of the 2K, 3K, 4K, 4.5K etc., shooting modes. I have not heard anyone talk specifically about adjustable frame lines or masks within each of these options (to make your own TV safe lines, as just one example. To make 2:35 framing lines in 2k mode, as another example).

But I think you mostly answered my question in post #13, David. Thanks.

And yes, Stephen. I think you are probably right about that. There will be a solution for S35. It would seem highly unlikely for it not to be addressed somehow.
 
Wouldn't it be right nifty if they made small chips one could arraldite to one's lenses where the i-pins are with which one could preprogram in the gate size applicable to that lens so that when one mounted the lens the camera would automatically set the frame guide etc. for said lens.
 
Todd Anderson said:
Dave, are you referring to the 2/3" Scarlet or the S35 Scarlet? As for the 2/3" scarlet, most likely you would be able to cover the full 2/3" sensor with just a regular 16mm lens (non S16 converted). Which in beneficial because the lenses on the used market are quite a bit cheaper and they would also be slightly faster. The Cooke 9-50mm is well regarded as breathing very little and is sharp with that "Cooke Look". The Zeiss 10-100 T2 came in a MKI (80mm front) and MKII (87mm front) version. The MKI breathed quite a bit and had some other issues. Neither of the Zeiss's have internal focusing if that matters to you (the front element moves in and out). Zeiss is more well regarded for their primes than their zooms as a rule of thumb. There are more modern S16 zooms from Angeneiux and Canon. That being said, because the 10-100's can be found today for a very good price, I would still pick one for that reason, perhaps.

quiktom, I think the 28k sensor is a ways off. The 645 sensor could use medium format still camera lenses. The 28k model, because of its price point, is probably going to be a very specialized item. I imagine if no lenses exsist, RED would develop them. I think the 28K sensor is a bit of a marketing ploy at this point. Meant to show the breadth of their thinking and their program.

If anyone still has any answers to POST #3 above, I would welcome them.
Click to expand...

Todd,

thanks for this its helpful.

Dave
 
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