Old vs New RED OLED EVF

[emil_h]

Hey everyone, so I'm looking at buying a RED OLED EVF. At this point I can either buy a used DSMC OLED EVF for around $1,500 or a new DSMC2 OLED EVF for $3,450.

I've heard mixed opinions on both. What I would like to see is if the majority of REDUSERS believe that spending 2K more for the new EVF is worth it or should I save my money and go with the previous OLED version. Please let me know.

Thanks!

 

[PatrickFaith]

The new one is just awesome, I for sure have no complaints on the dsmc2 evf. I probably use it about 40% of the time, for some things like locked off indoor shots I really like the larger monitors (7" or more). My camera is almost always on a tripod and I never have it hand held (aside from movi), so I really like using it with the red arm 9" as I almost always need to move the position of the EVF depending on the camera height and angle.

 

[Tom Gleeson]

Emil,

I have owned both OLED EVFs and they are very similar in terms of colour and their awesome deep blacks. BUT the new EVF wins as it is both a big image and a way sharper higher resolution image. The old EVF had an image that felt far away and the new one is a much larger image that comfortably fill your eyes FOV. The lower resolution and smaller image on the original EVF also made it hard to call sharps on it. Many times it looked sharp in the EVF and I would check my 17" 1920x1080 OLED monitor and the focus would be buzzed.:sad: The new OLED EVF gives me a lot more confidence on focus.

One downside is the cable comes out the side of the EVF which is fine if you mount it directly to the camera but I like my EVF on a extendible mount so I can have the EVF away from the camera body. When I use the Wooden camera EVF mount the cable tends to foul. Also my new DSMC2 OLED EVF is presently at Red as it was left pointing up whilst travelling in the camera van to a new location and the sun burnt a nasty mark on the screen. A $1,000 mistake. Generally never leave EVFs pointed up as this can happen to any of them and unsure if the new DSMC2 EVF is any more susceptible.

 

[Thai Christen]

I am in the same boat. And no intention to hijack your thread, Emil.

My rig was out for rental last week and came back two days ago with my trusty Zacuto Pro EVF damaged (black smears on the monitor screen).
So now I am thinking to replace it either with the original Red Bomb EVF or the Zacuto Gratical (X, Eye).

What do you think about the Red Bomb EVF LCOS? You can find on eBay for roughly US600-800. Is it worth or better pay US1400-1600 for Bomb EVF OLED?
I tried the new Dscm2 EVF and I don't like the eye cup at all. I think for the money the Gratical Eye is the better option IMHO.


Thanks!

 

[paulcurtis]

Same boat. I really need to see these things side by side but it's difficult to do so where i am.

The Gratical Eye seems like a really good option, however some say you cannot see the difference between 1080p and the 720p and others say you can. So it's probably down to individuals sight

I've read many posts about the older Red ones that puts me off to be honest.

I think the choice is between the Red EVF, the Eye and also a modified Ursa viewfinder.

The Eye appears to be the most ergonomic (i'm left eye master so the default mount for the Red EVF isn't going to help me) i assume the eye has very quick magnification options, straight to 1:1 zoom. So the issues of focus might be countered by that.

But the Ursa option gives you that 1080p image at the expense of it looking a bit clunky and reduced features.

So at the end of the day i think it comes down to resolution more than anything and whether that Eye is good enough to focus off, or whether that *really* needs 1080p

cheers
Paul

 

[Thai Christen]

So the Bomb EVF LCOS (not the Red One; the second generation without OLED) is not worth it, even at a cheap price of under US800?

The Gratical Eye does not have pass through. So let's say I want to add a third party monitor (SmallHD 702 bright) for 1st AC with pass through wireless video to Director's monitor, is it possible? I have not been able to test it yet but have read somewhere that only either the SDI or HDMI can feed video signal but not both at the same time. Is this true?

BTW, you don't need 1080p for critical focus. Dsmc2 EVF and Eye both look the same to me in terms of resolution and sharpness.
I have been using my Zacuto Pro EVF from my Canon 5D time, to Red1, Weapon and now Helium 8K. No problem at all. Maybe I am lucky and have good eyesight.

 

[Olivier Gresse]

Personally, I will try the SmallHD 502 + Sidefinder solution because for me it is more peaking tools that poses problem to make a good focus. I used to work with color peaking that I find more effective and the fact that Red doesn't offer it yet is a real problem.

With SmallHD, you can customize the focus tools and create pages with luts or different tools.

I don't know if this is the best solution but I already have the screen and before I consider buying another viewfinder, I want to give it a chance.

 

[Thai Christen]

Personally, I will try the SmallHD 502 + Sidefinder solution because for me it is more peaking tools that poses problem to make a good focus. I used to work with color peaking that I find more effective and the fact that Red doesn't offer it yet is a real problem.

With SmallHD, you can customize the focus tools and create pages with luts or different tools.

I don't know if this is the best solution but I already have the screen and before I consider buying another viewfinder, I want to give it a chance.

Hey Oliver, have you tried the SmallHD Sidefinder, or will you in the future? Sorry if it was not clear.
SmallHD Sidefinder was on my list too. However, after having read several bad reviews I am hesitating. Some people say that the reflection issue due to mirror design of the loupe is a problem. Also, you need the remote for changing settings when in EVF mode because the buttons are not accessible. Otherwise, the monitor itself is superb.

 

[Olivier Gresse]

Hi Thai,

I ordered the sidefinder but not tested yet . I have the 502 and except the fact that it's really hot, it's a good monitor. Yes, I read the problem of reflection with the sidefinder, but where I am, I could not test it before buying it.

About to change the settings and the need for the remote control, I do not know if this is a real problem, I think the most important thing is to have a sidehandle or a sidekick to change the red settings, but may be I'm wrong.

If anyone here has already tested the sidefinder and give us an opinion, it would really be appreciate.

I would buy the EVF red OLED but it is so expensive and I would like to test it before but it is impossible where I am.

 

[paulcurtis]

The Gratical Eye does not have pass through. So let's say I want to add a third party monitor (SmallHD 702 bright) for 1st AC with pass through wireless video to Director's monitor, is it possible? I have not been able to test it yet but have read somewhere that only either the SDI or HDMI can feed video signal but not both at the same time. Is this true? BTW, you don't need 1080p for critical focus. Dsmc2 EVF and Eye both look the same to me in terms of resolution and sharpness.
I have been using my Zacuto Pro EVF from my Canon 5D time, to Red1, Weapon and now Helium 8K. No problem at all. Maybe I am lucky and have good eyesight.

Note sure, i'd run the SDI out from the base expander. But does doing that remove the second port on the camera? I know using the HDMI out would disable the second one - just not sure about the SDI. But then that's what the bigger graticule is for, that has pass through and everything. I just want a lightweight EVF.

It's nice to hear that side by side you can't see the difference though. Of course maybe your eyesight isn't as good because you can't see a difference!

Personally, I will try the SmallHD 502 + Sidefinder solution because for me it is more peaking tools that poses problem to make a good focus. I used to work with color peaking that I find more effective and the fact that Red doesn't offer it yet is a real problem.

I'd heard so-so reports on the side finder, but interested to hear how that goes

cheers
Paul

 

[Thai Christen]

Hi Thai,

I ordered the sidefinder but not tested yet . I have the 502 and except the fact that it's really hot, it's a good monitor. Yes, I read the problem of reflection with the sidefinder, but where I am, I could not test it before buying it.

About to change the settings and the need for the remote control, I do not know if this is a real problem, I think the most important thing is to have a sidehandle or a sidekick to change the red settings, but may be I'm wrong.

I mean changing the settings in the monitor itself (Luts, Scopes etc.). I have the sidekick which I think is a neccessity if you use EVF a lot.

 

[Thai Christen]

Note sure, i'd run the SDI out from the base expander. But does doing that remove the second port on the camera? I know using the HDMI out would disable the second one - just not sure about the SDI. But then that's what the bigger graticule is for, that has pass through and everything. I just want a lightweight EVF.

It's nice to hear that side by side you can't see the difference though. Of course maybe your eyesight isn't as good because you can't see a difference!

Haha, this is a good one
Honestly, although the new Red EVF and Gratical have higher resolution and in many ways better and more professional, I have been sticking to my old Zacuto EVF Pro because I find the immersive image better for focusing. Screen is only 800x640, but it is like watching TV on FullHD at close distance. Whereas with the new Red EVF and Gratical, it is like you watch to a 4K TV screen through a tunnel from war away. I prefer the former, but maybe it is just me.
However, since I rent out my gear as well, I am considering investing in Red EVF.

And regarding SDI/HDMI out simultaneously, just tested, yes you can have both signal out at the same time.

 

[PatrickFaith]

If people are looking for consistent critical focus at 4K with low T stops I think they need a high end wireless follow focus and wireless video to 9" to 15" display (hopefully 4K) with a dedicated focus puller that has experience. With a dedicated focus puller on wireless it's hard to use any evf just because it gets so crowded around the camera, especially if a dolly or jib is used, so having 4K critical (t2 head shot with moving actress) focus pulling as a requirement for an EVF isn't where I would put my money.

 

[Bob Gundu]

That Sidefinder was a good idea but it is junk. I sold mine immediately. I hear they fixed the not closing issue but its actually more inconvenient than convenient. I have the OLED EVF and don't have any issues with it. I only use it when I'm walking around incognito and don't want a bright LCD screen screaming. I can focus fine with it. Check my focus here.

https://vimeo.com/138590588

 

[Olivier Gresse]

I mean changing the settings in the monitor itself (Luts, Scopes etc.). I have the sidekick which I think is a neccessity if you use EVF a lot.

Yes, I understood that you were talking about the parameters of the monitor but I wonder if I will have to change them often... what I want is mostly an adjustable color peaking and an oscilloscope because I use them all the time. If the sidefinder is convincing enough and I have to buy the remote I think I will do it in a second time.

I ordered the sidefinder and D-tap cable, the cable will always serve me if I choose to not use the sidefinder and just the monitor. I also want to use the sidefinder on a FS7 because the screen and the original mount are not great.

Are you happy with your sidekick? I hesitate between the sidekick and the side handle to control the camera, why did you choose the sidekick vs the sidehandle? What I like in the sidehandle is that it is usable without looking, on the other hand in shoulder configuration, I wonder if it is well usable.

 

[Thai Christen]

Yes, I understood that you were talking about the parameters of the monitor but I wonder if I will have to change them often... what I want is mostly an adjustable color peaking and an oscilloscope because I use them all the time. If the sidefinder is convincing enough and I have to buy the remote I think I will do it in a second time.

I ordered the sidefinder and D-tap cable, the cable will always serve me if I choose to not use the sidefinder and just the monitor. I also want to use the sidefinder on a FS7 because the screen and the original mount are not great.

Are you happy with your sidekick? I hesitate between the sidekick and the side handle to control the camera, why did you choose the sidekick vs the sidehandle? What I like in the sidehandle is that it is usable without looking, on the other hand in shoulder configuration, I wonder if it is well usable.

Ok let me know once you have tested the Sidedinder. Still hearing good and bad things.

I chose Sidekick because 60% of my work is drone and gimbal. And I love it. The wheel and buttons are very intuitive, you can operate blindly in Evf or shoulder configuration.
Sometimes I go from handheld to gimbal then drone and vice versa in one shoot. The Sidekick is always on the camera keeping the setup compact. The Sidehandle is not convenient for this type of shoot.
In the most compact setup, I only have an Evf on Natorail to camera with Sidekick, one small LiPo battery velcro to back of Base Expander for power. Operating in Hasselblad V manner

 

[emil_h]

Ha I feel like we kind of went nowhere with this thread. So many different opinions with no clear answer :/

 

[Brendan H. Banks]

Ha! I'm also in the EVF boat. Thinking of the Zacuto Eye or Gratical X as I really only need basic monitoring features. Wanna make the jump to EVF as I'm a bit tired of dealing with constant changes to my monitor for different location changes and rarely have the luxury of someone who can flag off the monitor for me.

Was thinking RED but sometimes I shoot with other camera systems that are not my own and being able to bring my EVF on board for familiarity would be fantastic.

 

[paulcurtis]

I finally managed to compare all 3 EVFs.

The Eye is the biggest of the bunch actually, it has the benefit that its displays and menus are not over the image, but they are not the native displays either. Also if you are viewing just the image then no matter what the source aspect ratio is, it will fill all horizontal width (if you are viewing the Red tools on top of the image then the full frame aspect ratios have black either side (as per the LCDs).

The Ursa one is smaller in person than it looks in photos. The image is nice but obviously there's not much you can do tool wise as it's really designed for the Ursa. The actual image itself seemed a bit smaller than the Eye.

I really couldn't tell the difference between the resolution of the two above. The Eye seemed to have better contrast but then i wasn't viewing like for like which isn't fair. The Ursa is 1920 vs 1280 for the Eye.

The nicest was the Red EVF, i did think i could see a resolution difference although it's not obvious, it's not night and day. The physical EVF was smaller than i thought and the mount to the camera is really neat - however i'm a lefty and whilst it can be used looking down okay i feel that in shoulder mode it would be difficult. Also i don't understand why the Red EVF cannot be adjusted forward. It just seems crazy to be locked into that position as the centre of gravity of a rig would be forward of it. So i think the Red would need to be mounted differently to make it truly flexible and then you loose the neatness of the connection. And the integration is obviously better - customised buttons and a single cable connection.

So all 3 are useful and do the job.

I did pick up a Gratical for a decent price last week (not been able to use it much) but i'm not 100% convinced. I think i would prefer the red, but it is a lot more expensive and i'm not sure it's worth the extra.

Some of that depends on mounting options for the Red EVF, i mean is everyone using that one mount or are there some decent alternatives?

cheers
Paul

 

[Thai Christen]

Thanks Paul for your review!

Today I had a chance to test Red Bomb Lcos, Weapon Evf and Gratical Eye side by side in a real shoot situation. Shoulder configuration with lots of camera movement.
Foreword, I suffer from quite heavy motion sickness.
- Bomb Lcos, very strong steroscopic effect. After 1 minutes, I felt sick with headache. Although, pulling focus was fine. But man, this jittering stuttering in the image due to lag is killing me (60Hz)
- Weapon evf and Gratical eye, stereoscopic effec is less but still strong enough to give me headache after short usage (2-3 minutes). Image is crsip with good contrast and black value. But still too much pain for me. If I didn't suffer from motion sickness, I'd probably go for the Eye. Not worth spending the extra money to go Weapon Evf.

It seems that I am probably one of very few shooters who encounter this problem. Maybe there are others who can share the same experience as I do.
But for me, I am putting this Evf project to sleep. Will keep my Zacuto Evf Pro for the next couple of years. It has been working for me fine for the last 6 years. Or Red Lcd with Grid loupe or Smallhd Sidefinder would fit into this category too.

Maybe one day, someone can make a nice generic optical viewfinder at affordable price.