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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Old CRT vs Panasonic 11 Series Plasma for Grading

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Matt W.

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I expect to catch some flack for this, but I can't afford a higher end screen and I have access to these now. Obviously I will calibrate either before using it for reference. Just wondering what's better between the two (or, failing that, what's good and reasonably affordable as an upgrade)? I'm also getting a Panasonic projector most likely, but I think that will be more for viewing than grading.

I assume for grading HD material (rec709) a monitor designed for hdtv (and with an hdmi connection) is superior, although the calibration options on the panasonic don't seem quite as flexible as a professional production monitor. But I've heard so much love for the Sony GDM-FW900 elsewhere, which is a VGA monitor. Is it possible to calibrate an older, high end CRT (in my case a Lacie Electron Blue, but I can upgrade possibly) into something that can be used as a reference for rec709? If not, is the Sony a viable option? (Space is at a premium, so otherwise it would be a 42'' Panasonic plasma). My destination is blu ray, web video, dvd, etc. although fingers crossed I'll get the chance to exhibit something on DCP (but from what I've seen rec709 to DCP using free converters looks just fine when projected, just very slightly lower black levels on the DCP).

Thanks for all the help. I realize I should get something higher end if possible, but I can't afford it at the moment.
 
In theory...yes. But sdi doesn't seem likely; hdmi and component are options.

Just out of curiosity, how bad would the old CRT be? It has a really gorgeous image, but I take it the vga input and color space make it completely inappropriate for grading rec709? Mostly out of curiosity.
 
When you say old CRT, it seems you are referring to a computer monitor. Definitely not a good idea.
An old broadcast hd CRT may work alright, but likely has a worn out tube.
That plasma accepts sdi with optional card. It is not cheap.
 
It is a computer monitor. What confuses me is that I read the Sony GDM-FW900 was one of the best monitors for grading, but it's a computer monitor, too. It seems like it might be bad information, but I don't know. The proper hd broadcast monitors I've seen are the nicest, but very expensive and really not that different from calibrated plasmas to my eyes, maybe a little better contrast?

I'm sure I can't afford the SDI card yet.
 
CRT 's are gone from the industry. It happened fast, leaving the studios scrambling for a quick substitute. The plasma seems to be it for now. I recently saw a Sony broadcast hd monitor in the outdoor part of a local surplus place getting rained on. Junk. A few years ago these were fetching tens of thousands of dollars!
 
Until two years ago when I had purchased Panasonic TH-58PF12UK, for over a year I had used Sony GDM-FW900 for grading with great success. If you can find one with a decent tube (increasingly unlikely) calibration is a breeze in comparison to Plasma. As they age, CRTs are VERY unstable and need to be calibrated every day. But, as I said, it is a breeze and it usually takes a few minutes a day. Panasonics on the other hand are very stable, once they had been properly burned in, but profiling and calibration is time consuming and quite tricky. So, the good news, Sony GDM-FW900 is an great monitor for grading, but because it is VGA, it is limited to only 8 bit. But, because it is a analog monitor, you get less apparent banding, than a Panasonic with 10 bit SDI feed:-) So, if you can find Sony with CRT in good shape, on a low budget, you will not find better solution.
 
Thanks Jake, out of curiosity, how do you calibrate a VGA-based CRT for rec709 footage? I don't know enough about colorspaces to even begin to know how to approach this. Would my lacie electron blue (high end CRT, but also a computer not video monitor) work at all? And if I used an old CRT, could I totally eschew a blackmagic card?

The old school HD CRT monitors (which I understand were in excess of $50,000 apiece) that I've seen have the most remarkable image excepting maybe transparencies and rear projected film--in fact they kind of remind me of a Steenbeck--but I don't want to make the huge investment in one of those. But a computer CRT as a stopgap before I can afford better seems ideal for me at the moment. Thanks!
 
i always wanted to buy the FW900 since i have seen lord of the rings grading extra on the DVD ...

but as far as i know , it cannot accept 23,98P ... the aja SDI to RGBHV converter specifically say that the FW900 won't accept any 23,98 signal (even PsF) ..
here @pag 7
http://www.aja.com/pdf/support/manuals_conv/AJA_manual_HD10C2.pdf

jake : how did you connected the FW900?

thanks
g
 
Les Dittert said:
CRT 's are gone from the industry. It happened fast, leaving the studios scrambling for a quick substitute. The plasma seems to be it for now. I recently saw a Sony broadcast hd monitor in the outdoor part of a local surplus place getting rained on. Junk. A few years ago these were fetching tens of thousands of dollars!
Click to expand...

getting rained on? sorry i had to laugh at this
 
Gabriele Turchi said:
i always wanted to buy the FW900 since i have seen lord of the rings grading extra on the DVD ...

but as far as i know , it cannot accept 23,98P ... the aja SDI to RGBHV converter specifically say that the FW900 won't accept any 23,98 signal (even PsF) ..
here @pag 7
http://www.aja.com/pdf/support/manuals_conv/AJA_manual_HD10C2.pdf

jake : how did you connected the FW900?

thanks
g
Click to expand...

FW900 is a multisynk monitor, therefore you can feed it pretty much anything from the graphics card. In case of 24P or 23.98P I was using 72 Hz refresh for flicker free 24P image. Yes, aja SDI to RGBHV converter doesn't work. I tried:-) There is a reason for that, but as far as I remember, it was something about AJA and not Sony.
So, in order to connect the monitor I just used simple DVI to VGA plug. Worked like a charm.
There is one more thing about FW900. Unlike Plasma, FW900 is a true 2k monitor. I believe it supports even 2304x1440 in 16:9 mode. How about that? I picked both of my FW900s for $50 each:-)
Calibrating FW900 is no different from any other monitor. Use Lightspace or Cinespace and you can even use cheap i2 probe.
 
Gabriele Turchi said:
are you saying as GUI monitor ?... how would that be possible let's say from a Davinci ?

thanks
g
Click to expand...

DaVinci? What's that?:-)
Yeah, for better or worse, Resolve is the only software, that I know of, that doesn't display the video on the second monitor. Lustre, Filmmaster, Baselight, Scratch, Speedgrade all can use regular GPU card with an SDI daughter card for the output of the video on the second display. Or you can just use the DVI output, no SDI needed. That is how one can use the display monitor with Lustre, Scratch, Speedgrade or FilmMaster. Heck, the same goes for RedCine and Smoke. BTW, I think Multibridge supports component output, which may be used with the Sony monitor. I don't now, there was no Resolve at the time to test...
 
i totally agree ,
i really like the feeling of having the image BIG on the GUI and use the Gui monitor to grade (like Lustre/Flame?smoke) , as matter of fact Lord of The rings has been graded on the GUI monitor (sony FW900)

PS: even the deckling have component , but the 30 KHz min of the sony imply to use 30P as minimum video signal ...

g
 
Gabriele Turchi said:
i totally agree ,
i really like the feeling of having the image BIG on the GUI and use the Gui monitor to grade (like Lustre/Flame?smoke) , as matter of fact Lord of The rings has been graded on the GUI monitor (sony FW900)

PS: even the deckling have component , but the 30 KHz min of the sony imply to use 30P as minimum video signal ...

g
Click to expand...

Oh no. Lustre/Smoke/Flame allows you in addition to big GUI image a full size image on the second DVI display. And that goes for Scratch too. Baselight 1 used to do that too. With FilmMaster you have a choice of one or the other.
And I ment the decklink, not multibridge.
Why 30P minimum? I was running 24P on Sony with no problem, with a 72Hz refresh. Worked great. You can also do 30P as a 60 Hz refresh. Definitely better on the eyes...
 
jake blackstone said:
Why 30P minimum? I was running 24P on Sony with no problem, with a 72Hz refresh. Worked great. You can also do 30P as a 60 Hz refresh. Definitely better on the eyes...
Click to expand...

well using a decklink is not possible set the refresh as you can do for a Computer monitor ... so 24P would be 48Hz and less than 30KHz horizontal (around 27 i think )supported by the sony ...

g
 
Gabriele Turchi said:
well using a decklink is not possible set the refresh as you can do for a Computer monitor ... so 24P would be 48Hz and less than 30KHz horizontal (around 27 i think )supported by the sony ...

g
Click to expand...
Yeah, true. Too bad. If Sony just made FW900 with SDI input, that would have been a great monitor. Well. I think just described the professional Sony CRT monitor. Anyone knows, where i can get one of those for $50?:-)
Actually, I'm very curios about Sony 24" OLED monitor. I'm ready to take the plunge and replace my plasma. I'm hoping for the NAB special:-)
 
Buy the Pana but if you can buy the new 30 series. line them up correctly and it should work well for you. Essential you calibrate it with a LUT box of some sorts. The HD link works fine.
 
jake blackstone said:
Yeah, true. Too bad. If Sony just made FW900 with SDI input, that would have been a great monitor. Well. I think just described the professional Sony CRT monitor. Anyone knows, where i can get one of those for $50?:-)
Actually, I'm very curios about Sony 24" OLED monitor. I'm ready to take the plunge and replace my plasma. I'm hoping for the NAB special:-)
Click to expand...

Like you i had FW900's for years, on Flame & DS - one by one they went unstable, my last one is still in mothballs, passed away in 2009... was told it used the same tubes as the BVM24.

As for the NAB specials, you might want to have a word with Dolby on that subject... i have the 42" in my suite these days, and freelance in a facility with the 24" Sony BVM-OLED.. i'd go with the Dolby in a heartbeat.

d
 
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