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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Numbers

Gene Crucean said:
Soo umm... there are over 3,000 red one's on order.

3000 * $17,500 = $52,500,000 * looots of accessories = wow




... Good work Jim.
Click to expand...

How much do you think building a factory cost, hire smart people,making your camera,advertising,testing,NAB,IBC enz.....building redpocket...
They have to sell a lot more Red One camera's and I hope they do!!

And if you ask me, its not about the money! You can think about that!!

wkr
Robert:calm:
 
I wouldn't be surprised if the basic production packs aren't losing money...

Edit, forgive my double negative... It wouldn't surprise me if they were losing money on the basic prod packs.
 
I thought that I read somewhere that Jim or Ted said at one point that if Red sold 100 cameras, they'd be in the black. Or maybe it was 500? Either way, the gist of the statement was that with 3000+ reservations, the gamble had more than paid off. I've read people (mostly on CML) saying that they aren't making any money on the cameras, but I just don't think that that's true. And I can't imagine that they're losing money on accessories either. Jim is a shrewd businessman. He transformed Oakley from selling motorcycle grips out of his truck, to a multi billion dollar international company. Don't get me wrong, I think that it's amazing that he has the passion and interest that he has in this project, and I don't think at all that he's just out to make a buck. He doesn't have to anymore. But Red is still a business.
 
I doubt the products would be selling at a loss, but the investment to get to this point would have been pretty significant. I don't think RED is rolling in profit just yet.
 
Ethan Cooper said:
I wonder how much development and salaries have cost this first couple years?
Click to expand...

several glass of milk, several cigars and some flight expenses to New Zealand have been confirmed. Other calculations remain speculative.
 
Ethan Cooper said:
I wonder how much development and salaries have cost this first couple years?
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Plenty....without any income for the first 2 years and all the R&D and tooling up for manufacture being spend without a revenue stream is quite a feat.

Gene, I know your intentions of this thread are meant as praise, But think of
not having any income and spending like crazy for 2 years to get a company up and running is quite a daunting task and 52 mil divided by 2 years, maybe more, is all of a sudden 22 mil plus interest from loans,etc etc. you get the point.

As a quick example I know a guy who developed a simple household item,
and it took him 175,000 dollars and a year a a half to get to market with a product that sells for 24.95.

I will stick to my day rate.
 
laguun said:
several glass of milk, several cigars and some flight expenses to New Zealand have been confirmed. Other calculations remain speculative.
Click to expand...

Hotels in Wellington aren't that cheap either...

Also they had to hire some fans to air out HQ when it flooded. So we're up to at least $10,000 I reckon.
 
Sycophant said:
Hotels in Wellington aren't that cheap either...

Also they had to hire some fans to air out HQ when it flooded. So we're up to at least $10,000 I reckon.
Click to expand...

Hm... I think we might have forgotten the Sony SRX4K projector.
 
What about those deposits?

What about those deposits?

phaz said:
Plenty....without any income for the first 2 years and all the R&D and tooling up for manufacture being spend without a revenue stream is quite a feat.

Gene, I know your intentions of this thread are meant as praise, But think of
not having any income and spending like crazy for 2 years to get a company up and running is quite a daunting task and 52 mil divided by 2 years, maybe more, is all of a sudden 22 mil plus interest from loans,etc etc. you get the point.

As a quick example I know a guy who developed a simple household item,
and it took him 175,000 dollars and a year a a half to get to market with a product that sells for 24.95.

I will stick to my day rate.
Click to expand...

1500 1K deposits and another 1500 $1750 deposits = over $4 million in interest free deposits. Nothing to sneer at. You might have to set aside the 1 to 2 million they had to pay to for development and purchase of the first 1000 mysteriums but after NAB 2006 with only 10 to 13 employees there probably wasn't a big negative cash flow (depending on how they accounted for those deposits - i.e. if they were set aside or escrowed then obviously a few million would have had to be invested to cover those costs.)

The first hundred in September October would have pumped in another 2 million and about 4 million in December/January for SN 100-300.

From a report I read on the web this exceeds the income of Ikegami.
 
"over $4 million in interest free deposits"

don't forget close 1400 orders get $2500 in free accessories - that has got to take some bite out of profits and is far more interest then any of us would have received from a bank...

so the risk vs. reward factor for the 1st approx 1400 customers was no risk with a HUGE reward ... THANK YOU RED !!!
 
$2500 "free" accessories

$2500 "free" accessories

donatello said:
"over $4 million in interest free deposits"

don't forget close 1400 orders get $2500 in free accessories - that has got to take some bite out of profits and is far more interest then any of us would have received from a bank...
Click to expand...

Disagree on this part. Originally the REDONE was to have an onboard LCD and onboard storage. Those became accessories: $1700 for the LCD and $500 for the CF module and $200 for an 8 gig card.

Effectively the price for a base camera is now $19,900. Not bitchin and I am well aware of the other goodies we have gotten beyond the original spec - just trying to counter a little of the spin.

donatello said:
so the risk vs. reward factor for the 1st approx 1400 customers was no risk with a HUGE reward ... THANK YOU RED !!!
Click to expand...

Completely agree, that's why I plunked down my deposit two years ago. :greedy:


PS. Andrew, I just tracked that post you referenced - I never noticed that Jim responded to that (hope he wasn't pissed. As much as I've pushed on the lens mount issues I root for RED and would like to stay on good terms.) As far as that analysis, in 2005 I did a fairly in depth look at making a harddrive recording system to use with Sony and Panasonic HiDef "box" cameras (Box cameras are just the guts electronics,a lens mount, and video out - they look like an overgrown CCTV camera), or possibly a custom camera, to try to reduce the overall package size for my underwater stuff. I didn't have the investment funds, but I got a pretty good idea of what it would cost to do it.
 
One thing we are forgetting here.
There are small, one project based business rules, and sustained business rules.

Sustained businesses could be profitable even if there is no positive cash flow, it mean losses.

Business owner(s) can substantially benefit not only on positive cash flow in the given business but also on the market value of the company. Profit cashed by shareholders is taxable at higher rate that capital gain derived from the market value of the company.

Company that has 30% – 50% revenue grow in high tech sector could have the market value of 5 or even 8 times the yearly revenue. You can lose tons of money in terms of cash flow but in spite of that you could be very profitable for the shareholder(s) and on top of that the profit could be minimally taxable.

I don’t want to speculate about the market value of RED at this moment but I think most of the solar powered consumer calculators will run out of digits here if you start calculation.

Well as Jim said before, I better go and figure out this Adobe Premiere Pro with On Location module before my camera arrives.

BTW Nice software this On-Location and APPro has nice sharpening and other grading tools.

Andrew
 
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