NTSC / PAL mixed workflow

[Sebastian Gross]

hey there,

i have a red-project coming up that includes a finish in NTSC / 30fps and PAL / 25 fps (from same raw-material) - working with FCS3, Flame and Scratch.

the plan so far is to shoot at 30fps, get the project finished in NTSC / 30fps
and then transcode the finished project again to 25fps in flame.

a little more specific: 30fps.R3D > clipfinder > ProRes30fps.mov > FCS3 > proRes30fps.xml > clipfinder > conformed_r3d_30fps.xml > scratch > graded_r3d_30fps.xml > flame > 30fps_master

then: orig_30fps.R3D > .....same same.... > flame > 25fps_master (DPX e.g.)

- do you have any suggestions what to mind especially?
- is there any reason to shoot in 24fps to achieve an easier transcoding?
- should i do it the other way round: shoot 25fps, transcode to 30fps?

i appreciate any comment.

s.

 

[Gunleik Groven]

well...

if you shot @ 23.97, that would work with a 29.9xxx and you coulddo a simple speedup to 25 and your images would not be compromised in any of the scenarios. the same can't be said for a 30 starting point, but pretty much for a 25.

 

[Dave Blackham]

well...

if you shot @ 23.97, that would work with a 29.9xxx and you coulddo a simple speedup to 25 and your images would not be compromised in any of the scenarios. the same can't be said for a 30 starting point, but pretty much for a 25.

Just some thoughts. Im assuming this is for broadcast but may be wrong. You could shoot 25 and convert to 23.976 and run a 3:2 run but personally I personally don't like 3:2. Your much better loosing frames when transcoding so better to shoot 25 and convert to 23.976 i.e. replay the frames at 23.976 so theres a slight slow down or use compressor to to a motion compensated conversion to 23.976. Theres a good algorithm in Compressor to do high quality temporal conversions. If you want a preset I can send you one.

The 30 to 25 is more of a problem but a cross convert in compressor would do this reasonably well. May be run a test and see what you think.

Id not do 24 to 25 and do a temporal convert but you could speed up the 24 to 25 then this would work fine.

You may need to consider shooting frame rate from the point of view of lighting flicker.

 

[Gunleik Groven]

(...)

You may need to consider shooting frame rate from the point of view of lighting flicker.

Good point...

 

[Cail Young]

If it's for broadcast, shoot 23.98 and add 3:2 for NTSC and speed up to 25 for PAL.

 

[Sebastian Gross]

so let´s assume the shooting location is in the usa, therefore NTSC / 29,97 fps. to avoid flickering lights i set the shutter to 1/60.

because one of my desired products IS NTSC (already), i further assume that i already did 50% of the job by shooting NTSC conform.

in other words: i need NTSC 29,97 so i shoot NTSC 29,97.

... after that my basic thought was to just transcode the perfectly fine 29,97 fps NTSC finished product to 25 fps.

a simple transcode, isn´t it?

s.

 

[Dave Blackham]

so let´s assume the shooting location is in the usa, therefore NTSC / 29,97 fps. to avoid flickering lights i set the shutter to 1/60.

because one of my desired products IS NTSC (already), i further assume that i already did 50% of the job by shooting NTSC conform.

in other words: i need NTSC 29,97 so i shoot NTSC 29,97.

... after that my basic thought was to just transcode the perfectly fine 29,97 fps NTSC finished product to 25 fps.

a simple transcode, isn´t it?

s.

Yes, but you need a very good algorithm to do it. Compressor set up correctly can do this very well for you but will take 20 to 30 hours to do the render. I don't know about the auto desk stuff.