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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

November 13th... prep.

Phil Bates said:
Sorry to stray off topic, so this is my last Twixtor comment. I rarely shoot 24fps. Sage, I agree in principal with you. If we could do this digitally, I am all for it. My problems with Twixtor involve everything from timelapse on up to high frame rates. There is no way to get 1000fps equilavent from Twixtor unless you are starting at a very clean 500fps with almost no motion blur. Nothing against Twixtor, it has its place but not for this.

Back to Scarlet/Red/Epic, I would be happy with 150 to 200fps at full res. This is what I am used to as it competes directly with Arri 435.

Phil
http://www.artbeats.com
Click to expand...

I don't use twixtor, but I have started playing around with AE's pixel-motion Timewarp. It seems to depend on the type of footage you shot as to how many interpolated frames you can create. For some shots, I can double the frame rate. For others, I get massive warping, or strange movement. Right now it seems to be a hit or miss kind of thing. Not something I would count on, but sometimes it can be useful in a pinch.
 
FORGET HIGH SPEED.

I am sure they are going to give us plenty of speed. Past that rent a frick'n Phantom. Thats what it does and it is fantastic at it.

I am so surprised that simple fps is the corner stone of this conversation. Sensitivity, dynamic range, noise floor and pattern / compression scheme, data malleability, physical functionality, intersystem integration, more rez???... these are the shoulders that will bear the weight of change.

Besides, it's always been like that. There are work horse cameras and then specialty cameras. High speed being one special function. Give me HDR in the EPIC over 1000fps any day.
 
Satisfied

Satisfied

Are we REDUSER Forum members just never satisfied?
Most company's don't give 2 $ hits about requests, etc. Requests to Panasonic and Sony end up with little changes like the addition of 24 Progressive Native instead of just 24p, not things like WiFi, 120FPS, 3D rig able, lens mount choices, attachments, etc.

Wow how far will you let us go Mr. Jannard? So far the sky has been the limit.
 
Tom said:
Right now it seems to be a hit or miss kind of thing.
Click to expand...

Things that are difficult for AE time warp:

- Motion in two or more opposite directions
- Moving items that cross each other
- Motion across a grid or similar detailed background
- Small moving items
- Too fast motion
- Low contrast moving items (compared to background)
- Other similar stuff i forgot

Any combination of the above is naturally worse.
 
I for one do not doubt the groundbreaking capabilities red possesses. I am really not looking forward to hearing people complain of what the Scarlett and Epic DONT have. Red is doing unbelievably innovative work and unless you think you can come up with something better then just don't speak. I have confidence that the Red team will be cramming as many features and options into these cameras as possible for the most affordable rate. So stoked! Thursday please come fast! :)
 
Frzendreams said:
FORGET HIGH SPEED.

I am sure they are going to give us plenty of speed. Past that rent a frick'n Phantom. Thats what it does and it is fantastic at it.

I am so surprised that simple fps is the corner stone of this conversation. Sensitivity, dynamic range, noise floor and pattern / compression scheme, data malleability, physical functionality, intersystem integration, more rez???... these are the shoulders that will bear the weight of change.

Besides, it's always been like that. There are work horse cameras and then specialty cameras. High speed being one special function. Give me HDR in the EPIC over 1000fps any day.
Click to expand...

YES! Dynamic range, low light sensitivity, compression, resolution are all biggies for me.

Phil
http://www.artbeats.com
 
Super Slow-mo

Super Slow-mo

Like any technique its only useful if you use it for the right idea.
Here we used phantom to extend those flashpoint moments in sport that are usually an instant...

http://www.brandspank.com/bs2/featured-work/Sky-Sport.html-715,0

disc. I would love to see 1000fps on red.
There is no Phantom in New Zealand so we had to fly one in from Australia.
 
Frzendreams said:
FORGET HIGH SPEED.

I am sure they are going to give us plenty of speed. Past that rent a frick'n Phantom. Thats what it does and it is fantastic at it.

I am so surprised that simple fps is the corner stone of this conversation. Sensitivity, dynamic range, noise floor and pattern / compression scheme, data malleability, physical functionality, intersystem integration, more rez???... these are the shoulders that will bear the weight of change.

Besides, it's always been like that. There are work horse cameras and then specialty cameras. High speed being one special function. Give me HDR in the EPIC over 1000fps any day.
Click to expand...

I don't think any of us have forgotten DR, sensitivity, and etc. Obviously those are higher priorities and many a thread about them. I think RED has a good handle on them for sure. FPS came up and honestly I think if 500fps was easier to achieve you would see more creative uses of it. I refer to how much Phantoms are renting right now like Mitch mentioned. ALL THE TIME!

Sure a high speed shot is usually boarded well in advance but what if it came to you on set like many of the best ideas do. You would be ready. You would also save the production 5000 big ones. Granted the tech is not there to affordably integrate this into 24fps cameras but when the tech comes to do it......I hope it's not ignored as there is a need for it IMHO.

Like I said earlier. The power of a high speed shot is it in the edit and the 24fps shots around it. Not necessarily as a clip by itself. Contrast and affinity principles in editing.
 
Zzzzzzzzzzz....

Zzzzzzzzzzz....

Jannard said:
For me... up to about 150fps can still is interesting. And it can be used to shoot something "real" for a nice effect. 1000fps is a setup studio shot with a TON of light. Seen one, seen them all. How can you watch more than a few seconds of uber-slow motion? I have the attention span of a ferret. Too much for me. That spinning dragster tire was painful to watch...

I am quite sure there are exceptions where a super slo-mo would be cool. Not sure what, but someone will find it. RED won't be the camera taking the shot in the next few years.

Jim
Click to expand...
Anybody remember the "morphing" craze that hit the Ad industry about 15 years ago?

That effect went stale faster than a Christmas cake on New Years Eve.

Same as all those variable frame rate shots that were all the rage a few years back. Even my kids were pretending they were in one.

Bit like scriptwriting really.

For a while you apparently couldn't get anyone to look at a script that didn't have "Are you judging me?" in it somewhere.

Now it's "He/they/you was disrespectin' me/them/her/him"

What next?
 
Post software does not cut it for most slow motion extensions. Perhaps for simple motion, but the moment it becomes complex, multiaxial or involves objects interacting with one another you can forget it. Just try extending water effects with it and you'll know.
 
Remember when shutter angles other than 180 were considered a mistake unless dialing out a frequency issue(TV roll). Then came Saving Private Ryan. Now it's part of the cinematic language like anything else. They always get overused at first(currently) but there is something about a tight shutter than honestly mimics the human experience during adrenaline fueled moments I think. Some techniques are here to stay and some go.
 
Had a Phantom shot of water out of a glass all over the place.. shot at 500fps.. needed extending.. managed to get it down to 7% speed.. sometimes it's possible.. sometimes not.. problem is you cant say yes we can to director/producer/dop till you actually try it on that exact shot :(
 
god, how did this thread turn into a 1000fps discussion? awful, just awful. :)

less silly frame rate talk, and more juicy scarlet/epic morsels please?? this will be one of the longest 2 days of my life.
 
mani said:
god, how did this thread turn into a 1000fps discussion? awful, just awful. :)

less silly frame rate talk, and more juicy scarlet/epic morsels please?? this will be one of the longest 2 days of my life.
Click to expand...

I agree. In my case, 180fps is awe inspiring, and twixtor will be used to futz all other necessary frames well enough. Right now I'm still playing games with 60i. ;/
 
Please STOP this 1000 fps discussion !

Like Jim said, you just won't have it on the new cameras. So forget about it PLEASE, or make a thread. Don't turn this excitement into a tech war.
 
As a person who films a lot of wildlife, I definitely see the benefits of higher frame rates. The utility of 1000fps, however, seems so limited that I'm glad RED has focused on other areas.
 
Video/motion isn't very interesting to me, and I had never heard of Red before the DSMC "DSLR killer" comment. Is any of this hype, and the announcement on Thursday, about that device, or is all of this just about Scarlet and Epic and other video products?
 
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