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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Nov 3rd Scarlet Prediction

Lawrence Bansbach said:
You may be right, except that Jim did it twice. Plus, when asked about Epic-S, he responded, "The camera you want is at the end of the year." He could have said something to the effect "Yeah, Epic-S will be released shortly after Scarlet." But he didn't. The statement seemed intentionally cryptic and very carefully worded.
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I guess I am unclear on the point you are making, then... My believe has been that the 11/3 Scarlet announcement will be the Scarlet announcement (no Epic-S) plus, perhaps, some general RED updates and excitement - like the Alchemy thing. When Jim says "the camera you want is at the end of the year" I believe he was talking about a camera DIFFERENT from Scarlet that will be released LATER than Scarlet. Personally, I would point at his comment at being even more evidence that Scarlet and "the camera you want" (for S35 fans) are not one and the same. FWIW, I also don't think they'd bring the S35 back into the Scarlet line; so, that other "new" camera is either going to be the Epic-S or some derivative of it, perhaps under a different name.

If I understand how this discussion started, I got the idea you believe the Epic-S has been cancelled. Is that a correct perception on my part?
 
Carey Lee Coffey said:
Untrue? People waiting in line for an Epic-X would raise hell if Red released an S35 camera to the masses while they were still waiting for theirs. There might be an S35 Scarlet in the works, but that won't come out until long, probably a year or more, after Scarlet 2/3 is released.
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and they wouldnt raise hell at all... the scarlet would been half the data... people buy the epic for all the data thru put... bc they need it for big budget films...
 
Terry VerHaar said:
I guess I am unclear on the point you are making, then... My believe has been that the 11/3 Scarlet announcement will be the Scarlet announcement (no Epic-S) plus, perhaps, some general RED updates and excitement - like the Alchemy thing. When Jim says "the camera you want is at the end of the year" I believe he was talking about a camera DIFFERENT from Scarlet that will be released LATER than Scarlet. Personally, I would point at his comment at being even more evidence that Scarlet and "the camera you want" (for S35 fans) are not one and the same. FWIW, I also don't think they'd bring the S35 back into the Scarlet line; so, that other "new" camera is either going to be the Epic-S or some derivative of it, perhaps under a different name.

If I understand how this discussion started, I got the idea you believe the Epic-S has been cancelled. Is that a correct perception on my part?
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It saying that they took epic -s and put that brain into the scarlet... replacing epic s with scarlet
 
Lawrence Bansbach said:
Jim said it here:



Of course, one could quibble and say, "'neighborhood of $12K' could mean anything from $10k to $15K." OK, but Jim's statement is about as close to a price projection on an unreleased product as he's gotten.
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Thanks for pointing that out - with all the guesses from everyone around the Epic-S pricing, I had forgotten that Jim, himself, had said that, albeit nearly 10 months ago now.
 
Epic-S though was based on the Epic 5k sensor with less features and processing power.

There could still be a 4k Scarlet S35 based on a smaller lower resolution sensor similar to the original Red 1M with a bare brain price below $10k. A step up from the 2/3" fixed.
 
Terry VerHaar said:
I guess I am unclear on the point you are making, then... My believe has been that the 11/3 Scarlet announcement will be the Scarlet announcement (no Epic-S) plus, perhaps, some general RED updates and excitement - like the Alchemy thing. When Jim says "the camera you want is at the end of the year" I believe he was talking about a camera DIFFERENT from Scarlet that will be released LATER than Scarlet. Personally, I would point at his comment at being even more evidence that Scarlet and "the camera you want" (for S35 fans) are not one and the same. FWIW, I also don't think they'd bring the S35 back into the Scarlet line; so, that other "new" camera is either going to be the Epic-S or some derivative of it, perhaps under a different name.

If I understand how this discussion started, I got the idea you believe the Epic-S has been cancelled. Is that a correct perception on my part?
Click to expand...
Not mentioning Epic-S in a list of products in the pipeline might be an oversight if done once, but Jim did it twice. That makes it look intentional. When pressed about it, Jim could've have said that Epic-S was still in the pipeline and would still be released after Scarlet, as was, I believe, the original plan. But Jim carefully referred to a camera that would satisfy would-be Epic-S purchasers. He seemed very careful not to mention that camera -- which may still be Epic-S, a Scarlet model, or a new model (with a new name) -- by name. A reasonable inference from the somewhat evasive answer is that the camera is not the Epic-S, at least not by name, and he refrained from saying more so as not to imply that it is a Scarlet or steal thunder from the November 3 Scarlet announcement, if the camera is not a Scarlet. I don't have any firm belief as to when it will be announced -- I guess that depends on whether the mystery camera is a Scarlet. But you deduced correctly: from what Jim said (or intentionally did not say), I think that the new camera isn't the Epic-S, and that the Epic-S, by that name, no longer exists.
 
Terry VerHaar said:
Thanks for pointing that out - with all the guesses from everyone around the Epic-S pricing, I had forgotten that Jim, himself, had said that, albeit nearly 10 months ago now.
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Yeah, but that price is more recent than fixed Scarlet's. The last official price we heard for that was $4,750. Jim Jannard subsequently said HDRx would add about a grand, so "around $6K" was generally assumed. In a recent video, when Ted Schilowitz was asked whether it would still be $6K, he hemmed a little and said it would be about that. But his hesitation left me feeling a little less than absolutely convinced.
 
Lawrence Bansbach said:
Yeah, but that price is more recent than fixed Scarlet's. The last official price we heard for that was $4,750. Jim Jannard subsequently said HDRx would add about a grand, so "around $6K" was generally assumed. I a recent video, when Ted Schilowitz was asked whether it would still be $6K, he hemmed a little and said it would be about that. But his hesitation left me feeling a little less than absolutely convinced.
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True, but originally there was a poll asking if people would want HDRx for additional $1000.
 
FrankApollonio said:
why the hell wouldn't you want that ?!
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While an impressive feature, I think there would be some, that would rather save $1000 than have a feature, that while impressive, eats up your data rather quickly. I don't really see it as something I'll personally use very often. Although I can see certain shots needing it, or benefiting from it.

I'm yet to play with it, but at this point, I can't really find where I'd use it. It will be one of the many things I test when the Camera's ship.

Edit: I've yet to really see many video examples of it, but this has some good examples, very impressive :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTzin1_kYrI
 
Lawrence Bansbach said:
Not mentioning Epic-S in a list of products in the pipeline might be an oversight if done once, but Jim did it twice. That makes it look intentional. When pressed about it, Jim could've have said that Epic-S was still in the pipeline and would still be released after Scarlet, as was, I believe, the original plan. But Jim carefully referred to a camera that would satisfy would-be Epic-S purchasers. He seemed very careful not to mention that camera -- which may still be Epic-S, a Scarlet model, or a new model (with a new name) -- by name. A reasonable inference from the somewhat evasive answer is that the camera is not the Epic-S, at least not by name, and he refrained from saying more so as not to imply that it is a Scarlet or steal thunder from the November 3 Scarlet announcement, if the camera is not a Scarlet. I don't have any firm belief as to when it will be announced -- I guess that depends on whether the mystery camera is a Scarlet. But you deduced correctly: from what Jim said (or intentionally did not say), I think that the new camera isn't the Epic-S, and that the Epic-S, by that name, no longer exists.
Click to expand...

Then I guess we might be in some sort of agreement... kind of, sort of... maybe?? We both agree there might be an upcoming camera - not November 3rd Scarlet, but after (and before the end of the year) - that will be something like the Epic-S, regardless of what it is called?

Given my observation of Jim's manner and approach to his semi-public disclosures of secret but cool things that are coming, I am not buying the point that the apparent drop of the Epic-S from the roadmap is all that significant; but that may be just semantics.
 
David Rasberry said:
Epic-S though was based on the Epic 5k sensor with less features and processing power.

There could still be a 4k Scarlet S35 based on a smaller lower resolution sensor similar to the original Red 1M with a bare brain price below $10k. A step up from the 2/3" fixed.
Click to expand...

This is certainly an interesting possibility.
 
Jeffrey Loewe said:
While an impressive feature, I think there would be some, that would rather save $1000 than have a feature, that while impressive, eats up your data rather quickly. I don't really see it as something I'll personally use very often. Although I can see certain shots needing it, or benefiting from it.

I'm yet to play with it, but at this point, I can't really find where I'd use it. It will be one of the many things I test when the Camera's ship.

Edit: I've yet to really see many video examples of it, but this has some good examples, very impressive :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTzin1_kYrI
Click to expand...

that was a beautiful video, Yes to hdrx for me
 
Terry VerHaar said:
Then I guess we might be in some sort of agreement... kind of, sort of... maybe?? We both agree there might be an upcoming camera - not November 3rd Scarlet, but after (and before the end of the year) - that will be something like the Epic-S, regardless of what it is called?
Click to expand...
I'm also open to the camera that David Rasberry has described: a roughly $10K camera with a resolution between the Epic's and the 2/3-inch Scarlet's. This might be the Epic-S replacement, and its release would be (nearly) at the end of the year. If it had reasonable specs (maybe even 120 fps at 3K), it could demolish the F3 and anything Canon announced on the 3rd.
 
Lawrence Bansbach said:
I'm also open to the camera that David Rasberry has described: a $10K camera whose resolution that sits between the Epic's and the 2/3-inch Scarlet's. This may be the Epic-S replacement, and its release would be (nearly) at the end of the year.
Click to expand...

Jim's comment about how the market has changed in the three years since Scarlet was announced and what seemed a good idea then may not be the best thing now got me to thinking about how Red could or would react to the obvious market interest in larger sensors.

Scarlet fixed is, well, fixed. If they can make it at all it will be the 2/3" version we have seen.

What could be happening with the interchangeable version as a competitor to the AF100, FS100, F3 and the upcoming Canon cameras is the interesting question. 4k APSC sensor is more than enough to meet that market if they can keep the brain under $10k with competitive DR and image quality.
 
David Rasberry said:
What could be happening with the interchangeable version as a competitor to the AF100, FS100, F3 and the upcoming Canon cameras is the interesting question. 4k APSC sensor is more than enough to meet that market if they can keep the brain under $10k with competitive DR and image quality.
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I assume the DR would fall between the Epic's and the Scarlet 2/3-inch's, plus there would also be HDRx. The only problem with replacing the 2/3-inch Cinema with a 4K APS-C model is, what would Red do with the mini-primes? And what would you do with all the 16-mm glass you stockpiled? Use a 2x extender?
 
16mm glass would still be useful for 2k crop and high frame rate footy.
 
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