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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Nov 3rd Scarlet Prediction

And people for the love of God, please dont guess everyone is a new user, Ive been on this forum for 3 years,, just never felt like commenting till the iron was hot
 
FrankApollonio said:
The Epic -s was priced at 12k... it is not unrealistic for the scarlet to totally jump to S35 for the higher end models. Why would they tease about a base epic and cancel it , then not make up for it in a different way . All im saying
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Please point me to anything from RED that specifically said an Epic-S was to be $12K. Also, where was it said that Epic-S was cancelled? (Not mentioning it doesn't qualify for assuming cancellation.)
 
FrankApollonio said:
Scarlet is listed as a pro camera... Maybe non union productions will let you slide by with a 2/3" sensor, but union projects 90% of the time are going to want a S35.
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Yes, for that you already have two s35 cameras from RED.
 
Honestly, I have no interest in an S35 Scarlet. It's more camera than I can afford. I don't care about ultra shallow depth of field. I have seen plenty of examples of perfectly fine shallow depth of field in 16 mm work.

I want the Fixed Scarlet that was originally proposed at a price I can hopefully afford. If Scarlet Fixed plus accessories including 5" touchscreen, side handle, redmote, side SSD, media (either CF adapter or SSD), battery, charger, and redstation can be had for $10,000 or less, then I'm in. An Epic S 4K or 5K S35 brain has got to run at least $12,000 brain only. I mean, the Epic X is $28,000, right? Then, you have to add in accessories and lenses, probably pushing a package up to around $20,000 just to shoot. There's no way I can get in on that. So... I don't want S35.

I just think that if someone thinks they're going to get an S35 4K or 5K camera and be able to shoot with it at "Scarlet" prices (which I'm arbitrarily setting at $10,000 or less ), they are going to be disappointed on November 3rd.
 
Frank,

I think you misunderstood me. I really predicted nothing more than a price increase due to the tragedy in Japan, that they're already in production, and that they will have a good amount of cameras when taking order. Those are not specs. I'm not attacking you personally or saying anything about you personally because of you join date or any new members for that matter. I'm saying there is alot of crazy speculation. Nothing more nothing less, this is just the thread I posted in. In your first post if I remember right were expecting something for a pretty low price. Maybe I'm mistaken.

My predictions are based on things that were said. Jim said in the scarlet board that there would be no more announcements til it's ready to ship. Nov 3rd we're getting announcments. Based on that I'm predicting they're in production because of what he Jim said. As far as specs I mentioned I expect exactly what we already knew, 3K 120Fps HDRX 150fps Burst and REDCODE. And talking about it's value. We have no reason to believe, it's been mentioned nowhere that it would be S35. I'm not saying I wouldn't mind it, I'd love it. But I feel that is for the Epic. And that can all change and I could be wrong on the 3rd. Why do I think they'll have a good amount of Cameras to ready to order? Because They've said they wanted to try to have a good number ready to try and prevent being backordered.

All my predictions are based on things they've said. I don't try to cryptically read like some do. I take it for what it is. They also mentioned price increases, moving production to primarily being on US soil, and the tragedy. It's no secret modules and accesories will be recieving price increases at years end. I think it's a fair prediction to make that we might see a price jump from before. I could be wrong, but so could anybody.

It's different to run around and try and cryptically read Jim's posts and make assumptions, or just guess based on the current market. IMO They're the one's creating and deciding what the market will be. Either way the Scarlet will be at great value. It's fun to discuss but try and be realistic. Asking for cameras that are Epic Mini's for 5-6K is insane.

This isn't just to you Frank, it's just a general post. Trust me I'm excited I'm just taking what Jim said the other day in the expectations thread to heart. The Scarlet will still smoke anything in it's price range upon release. Sony used to sell there cinema 1080p camera for 300K, now they sell there 4K camera for 65K. Things are changing and even a 2/3 sensor with the specs the Scarlet had before will be incredible for what they were talking about releasing it at.
 
Steven Hammer said:
Honestly, I have no interest in an S35 Scarlet. It's more camera than I can afford. I don't care about ultra shallow depth of field. I have seen plenty of examples of perfectly fine shallow depth of field in 16 mm work.

I want the Fixed Scarlet that was originally proposed at a price I can hopefully afford. If Scarlet Fixed plus accessories including 5" touchscreen, side handle, redmote, side SSD, media (either CF adapter or SSD), battery, charger, and redstation can be had for $10,000 or less, then I'm in. An Epic S 4K or 5K S35 brain has got to run at least $12,000 brain only. I mean, the Epic X is $28,000, right? Then, you have to add in accessories and lenses, probably pushing a package up to around $20,000 just to shoot. There's no way I can get in on that. So... I don't want S35.

I just think that if someone thinks they're going to get an S35 4K or 5K camera and be able to shoot with it at "Scarlet" prices (which I'm arbitrarily setting at $10,000 or less ), they are going to be disappointed on November 3rd.
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This...

Exactly why Jim posted the Expectations... thread
 
Jeffrey Loewe said:
My predictions are based on things that were said. Jim said in the scarlet board that there would be no more announcements til it's ready to ship. Nov 3rd we're getting announcments. Based on that I'm predicting they're in production because of what he Jim said.
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Ping!

My view too; Jim wouldn't announce Scarlet unless there were.... thousands?... of units ready to ship. Scarlet is going to be considerably more of a mass-production situation than RED have ever attempted before, IMHO, and you simply don't get that kind of line shaken down without producing thousands of units. RED are acutely aware of past 'issues' with delays and protracted backorders; when they launch Scarlet they're going to want to dump that 'reputation' once and for all.

My bet on the 'surprise' for Nov 3rd? Those lucky enough to have wired funds already in their accounts will be able to walk out of the launch announcement *holding* a Scarlet...

Mike
 
No question that Red will make a lower cost, lower performance S35 model and the hints have suggested that it will be out before the end of this year . What this camera will be called or where it will fall in the lineup is anybody's guess at this point. Nothing has been said about it since the announcement that it will have HDRx like all Red models going forward. They have referred to it in the past as as Scarlet S35 then as Epic-S , but that may change again.
 
Felix Steinhardt said:
Why would you prefer CF? When comparing the 128 GB SSD with the 16 GB CF card, you get $ 14 per GB on the SSD and $ 18,75 on the CF card -> 33 % price increase.

If 3rd party cards worked, like the Lexar 600x I would also be in favour of a CF module, but I thought they will only run in 2k mode
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Well, if someone suggested I'd buy an overpriced RED CF-card, I would giggle like a school girl.

I'm talking about generic 600x or better cards where a 1GB is about $4-5.

A CF card is a CF card is a CF card.

RED would have to perform tests (and they have) to see what actual sustained rates are to generic cards, and then adjust a flavor or REDcode to sit well within these limits.

Every once in a while someone would complain about dropped frames. Well, get over it. If you can't take that you're welcome to spend several thousand dollars on SSDs for something that otherwise goes for pocket change.
 
Try the forum search.
It seems only RED CF cards are allowed to record more than 2k. A generic CF card would not be regognized as genuine and will be limited to 2k.

Another problem is 120 fps in 3k. No CF card can handle that, I assume.
 
AndreeMarkefors said:
Well, if someone suggested I'd buy an overpriced RED CF-card, I would giggle like a school girl.

I'm talking about generic 600x or better cards where a 1GB is about $4-5.

A CF card is a CF card is a CF card.

RED would have to perform tests (and they have) to see what actual sustained rates are to generic cards, and then adjust a flavor or REDcode to sit well within these limits.

Every once in a while someone would complain about dropped frames. Well, get over it. If you can't take that you're welcome to spend several thousand dollars on SSDs for something that otherwise goes for pocket change.
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Reds require sustained write to capacity speeds in the 90MB/sec range for maximum performance. The average sustained video write for the fastest commercial CF cards usually falls around 20MB/sec or less. Many do not use memory controllers that are compatible with Red software at all, they don't work period.
Even Red's own CF cards are too slow to meet the highest performance requirements of the new cameras.
Most high performance codec video cameras require proprietary media, you should think of Red as requiring the same. Cheap CF cards won't work.
 
Mike 'Fireman' Ross said:
My bet on the 'surprise' for Nov 3rd? Those lucky enough to have wired funds already in their accounts will be able to walk out of the launch announcement *holding* a Scarlet...

Mike
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I'd bet against that. Jim said he didn't think RED would be out of backorder for a long time after the Nov 3rd announcement.

Consider Canon's recent DSLR announcement had a shipping date of March 2012. God knows what the lead time will actually be on all these new cameras. I'd also anticipate RED ONE and/or EPIC owners will get first crack at Scarlet.

I think a 3K S35mm Scarlet would have been a great way to segment the products.

Scarlet has to be S35mm. It'll probably be 4K as well. Something about it needs to keep from pulling sales away from EPIC.

I do think RED's proprietary SSD system, while cool, is so expensive it will lose sales to other systems. It's certainly part of the equation. If they'd sell SSD housings we could put our own cards in that would be cool. SSD's are so fast it's hard to imagine any of the good ones not keeping up with 36/MB per second that RED One used for typical recording. Perhaps RED only SSDs are required for anything over 24FPS. That's a decent compromise.
 
Joel Kaye said:
...
I do think RED's proprietary SSD system, while cool, is so expensive it will lose sales to other systems. It's certainly part of the equation. If they'd sell SSD housings we could put our own cards in that would be cool. SSD's are so fast it's hard to imagine any of the good ones not keeping up with 36/MB per second that RED One used for typical recording. Perhaps RED only SSDs are required for anything over 24FPS. That's a decent compromise.
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As noted by David immediately above your post, the sustained write speed necessary for REDCode recording is well in excess of the 36MB/sec data rate. I really don't think RED is trying to exploit anybody with this. They are just protecting the integrity of the whole camera system.

And I personally doubt that people will go to another manufacturers system just because of this issue. Panasonic P2 and Sony SXS are not exactly cheap. And unless the data rates of the DSLRs go way up due to a massively improved signal quality, there really isn't any comparison.
 
Terry VerHaar said:
That is not an official word from RED - just hearsay - a guy making the same, probably wrong, assumption that you are. You citing that is just an echo chamber of bad information. Like I said, not mentioning it at a given point doesn't mean it disappears.

And FWIW, the guy at that web site gets a lot of stuff wrong.
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I agree with you thats its not official. It is a little wierd that a company posts there roadmap and leaves out a model. ITs a bit curious
 
FrankApollonio said:
I agree with you thats its not official. It is a little wierd that a company posts there roadmap and leaves out a model. ITs a bit curious
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And it's been scrutinized and discussed ad nauseam since. Could have been an oversight, could have been intentional. Personally, I think it was the former. Jim seems to post here in REDuser in a rather off-the-cuff manner. Only he knows for sure.
 
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