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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

not bashing but...

O

Obin Olson

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who not high or drunk or both would pay $1,000 less then a R1 for MPG2 recording:

http://pro.sony.com/bbsc/ssr/mkt-cinematography/mkt-cinematographyvideo/product-PMWF3L/

I mean are they....NUTS?

I guess some folks just really have NO idea the POWER of a RAW file for color and finish work.

uhgggg..can you imagine coloring or pushing mpg2 around in post? that would be worse then drinking warm budlight on a hot summer day!

the world is waking up, someone tell Sony it's after 11am :hurray:
 
obin said:
I guess some folks just really have NO idea the POWER of a RAW file for color and finish work.
Click to expand...

In photography not having RAW in prosumer or professional still cameras is unthinkable.

And not having RAW capability in even budget minded cameras gets criticized.
 
All that said- if you don't think there are people and organizations who care way more about specific brand names vs. technical comparisons you don't know this biz. Sony will sell those cameras like hot cakes...

Noah
 
We've been through this on other threads.

Be a little realistic:

Presumably there are thousands of R1 owners ahead of anyone wanting to buy a $31K+ Epic and the Red1 in the store is $25000. Plus $3200 for an evf. Plus $1700-2500 for a 1024x600 LCD (backordered) Plus a battery plate. Plus handles, etc. etc.

At $13300 sony is $17000 less and has a usable EVF (no cable needed) and a nice 1920x480 LCD (no cable needed) and a handle and a microphone holder, and direct access buttons for all of the common functions, and a servo zoom rocker and I believe support for both Arri LDS and Cooke iData, plus their own electronic lenses.

In other words a form factor that hundreds of thousands of people in broadcast television, documentaries, corporate and industrial, prosumer, indies, etc. have been using for years and for the most part is more appropriate for the vast majority of those users than that of the RED1 or even the Epic when it is available.

I want my Epic, but mainly for the resolution/DR. The form factor is sometimes a plus and sometimes a "not so plus".
 
Not so much

Not so much

The f3 is not a broadcast camera- it's aimed at the indie market- hence the handycam form factor. I thing it's a little of both- Sony wants the EX3 , HVX 200 , hd110 owners instantly recognize their new toy. Te pro old timers are puzzled about this form factor-very front heavy with EVF all the way out back- you can't keep it steady with a decent lens up front. Also Sony needs to extend the life of their R9000 PL- that they have just launched. And that's a shoulder mounted form factor.(huge BTW) But we all know now what the ultimate form factor is that's the-nexcam line that they just announced- a small box with controls, lens mount and a small LCD screen- modular with mountable accs for any configuration. And here everyone knows it-Epic and Scarlet are exactly that- modular.
 
"Uses a newly developed Super 35mm CMOS Image Sensor with a shallow depth of filed, high sensitivity, and excellent signal-to-noise ratio."

So this sensor has a "shallow depth of field"?
 
The more I think about the more I think Sony is really onto something with that camera.

For them its not about being the best... its about being good enough so that people won't try and learn something new. Betting on consumer laziness is historically a good strategy.

I just fielded some questions about rates for data transfer in a local professional group, and the ideas people have about what is good data practice are appalling.

XDCAM 35Mbps to SxS. That's easy and reliable. Data practices that would completely collapse on RED productions work just fine for XDCAM EX. Its a technical solution to a problem most of us here don't have- technical inexperience.

We may hate the brittle video, but having shot a lot of XDCAM EX myself its actually pretty good- provided you make the effort to create what you want in front of the camera and don't depend on post for everything.

(And yes a lot of Red users fall into that trap!)

Throw an external recorder into the mix, and a lot of people will never have worked with anything as good.

A lot of people are routinely flabbergasted when I turn in ProRes footage from an EX1. They've literally never seen anything that good. HDV isn't that far in our history.

Now... if that is what people think of EX1 footage recorded on a KiPro... they will be pleased as punch with the F3.

What are those people going to get out of RAW and subtle grading?

Now... for the price of a new RED One MX an EVF an RZ 17-50 and three RPP's (35, 50 & 85) I can buy a PMW-F3 kit with the three Sony prime lenses, and a RPZ 17-50 AND a PMW-350K (a 2/3" camera with a lens)

That's a lot of business flexibility.

Worth thinking about.

(I'll take a RED any day though)
 
To me that camera seems to answer so many problems that shooting DSLR creates. 35mm sensor, small form factor, timecode, easy professional monitoring (HDSDI), professional audio inputs, ok internal recording, great external recording (S.log is awesome) but why didn't it ship with a Canon mount?!?!
 
I don't really get the uproar with pricing, For $13k or so... it seems to pack quite a punch. 4:2:2, 10bit, s-log, s35, 12 stop DR (maybe more $ for 4:4:4, that is unconfirmed)... 3 x PL lens for $5k more. nice LCD, decent EVF, all the usual I/Os, decent form factor, PL mount.

The codec doesn't really come into it though... you record R1 onto an external device (CF is external) and you will record F3 onto an external device.... the internal codec is purely for offline, that seems obvious.

I can only imagine that people are comparing spec/price to the unscheduled Scarlet S35, which seems a little unfair considering people will be shooting with the F3 within 3 months.

R1 is currently twice the price of the F3 without any accessories.... how do you work out if a product is worth half/twice the price? It is a personal choice... some will pick RED, others will pick Sony.

Neither company should be being laughed at for providing an interesting option.

I'm all about the Scarlet S35... but availability does become an issue. I'm sure if it is available in April... the F3 will drop rapidly in price.
 
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I think misinformation and lack of education is a serious problem, today more than ever as the whole acquisition process has become more complex and varied (it used to be just Betacam/DV or film, and rarely did the same person shoot both).

Here at Reduser we have extremely technically informed people, way, way above average for the business.

I mean, I recently saw an interview of a DP shooting for a major network, and he said he chose to shoot at 1080i (60 fields), not 1080p, because the network was 1080i, so therefore his footage would need the least trans-coding to get to air.

The network didn't catch why that was idiotic, the producer, the director, not even the magazine in which this article was published. Nobody did.

All this talk about "It's only the story that matters" and so on (which to audiences, is actually not at all true - studies show that many people will watch a show "just because it looks nice" even though they may not be able to specify why, in technical terms, it looks nice, it's only fringe art-house audiences who are willing to tolerate bad camera work) has led us to undervalue the rare size and breadth of knowledge that many of us here have.

Knowledge really is power. We save tons of money for our clients, and get them better results, because we know better. With knowledge you don't need a brand to tell you what's good or not, you can determine it yourself.

Of course you also need artistic talent, but that alone will not get you as far.
 
Any better fully functional new 35mm camera currently out there for $13300 ? ;)


Anyhow...not interested...got spoiled by our Red One.
If someone sells new Red One kit for $14300...I might be interested.
 
ever had a warm "Budweiser Clamato" on a warm summers day?.. Awww, gaack, I think I just... oh boy I need to stop playing bocci ball like I'm in Vegas.
 
obin said:
I guess some folks just really have NO idea the POWER of a RAW file for color and finish work.
Click to expand...

You would be surprised how many big companies and agencies don't use RAW. It drives me nuts that on every big shoot I go to, they end up asking us to transcode to Prores 4:2:2 mov files and thus loosing all the options and functionality of RAW. They don't even want to deal with or try to understand R3d files (which is a shame). When I ask them why they end up saying "we're editing in FCP so it has to be an MOV files.....I can't believe so many people still let their ancient and outdated software limit them like this. (yes I am calling FCP ancient and outdated at this point!)

I am pretty sure a lot of people will jump on the Sony bandwagon...just like some people are going nuts on the Alexa (which we shot with 2 weeks ago and people were blown away by the beautiful REC 709 prores images...never mind that you have very few grading options in post once it's shot that way compare to RED footage. (although their Arri log is not too bad actually...)
 
* Wonders why pro Sony Threads get locked, but not the ones that arent *
 
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