noob question about harsh shadows outdoors

[Bryan Colvin]

I'm editing footage currently that was shot on in a neighborhood on a bright sunny day. The sun is casting crazy dark shadows. Color correction may be necessary to make it less crazy looking. If I were on set, what would be the way to fix this? reflectors? point them at the shadows to lessen the darkness? Just curious what you guys would do

 

[Joseph Coleman]

If exposed properly then you shouldn't have a problem pulling detail out of the shadows. If not then you may need to bump up the iso and apply noise reduction.

 

[Peter Strietmann]

I'm guessing it is on people's faces you are finding the shadows objectionable. It is easy to bounce some fill in the shadows but between the sun and the fill they will be scrunching up their faces. If you can fly a scrim over their heads it would go a long ways to knocking down the shadows. So much of it depends on your frame and if it is a wide shot or a close up. If you look at wide establishing shots closely you often times see on bright sunny days that the light is different than the mediums and close ups.

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

If exposed properly then you shouldn't have a problem pulling detail out of the shadows. If not then you may need to bump up the iso and apply noise reduction.

Yes and no... It's possible to expose "correctly" and keep most everything from clipping in the highlights and still have shadows that go far the other way. The dynamic range of these cameras only go so far. Noise reduction can indeed be a powerful ally in this and it can be applied selectively in the shadow areas so as not to over-process the bulk of the image.

Ideally, we would all like to have proper bounce and fill for shadow areas on a production. Of course we don't always have that in the budget or have the time or crew to make it happen.

To answer Bryan's question -- yes, on-set the answer is to use reflectors, bounce boards, even use fill lights, etc.. Can also use flags, sun-shades, etc.. to create or soften shadows or tone down the sunlight, if it works for your shot. Whatever it takes to even out and control your lighting. For those of us (and I fall into this category for much of what I shoot), who shoot outdoors in natural lighting, often with minimal crew, the Dragon sensor is going to offer a lot of possibilities. With the EPIC, we currently have HDRX and it can offer some very good results, within its limitations. Fast motion is typically a problem with HDRX.

 

[Jason Honeycutt]

In post, you really have to gently lift those shadow areas without blowing out your mids and highs. Are you color-correcting in Avid? Hopefully there's enough info there where they didn't crush the blacks too much. If you're in Symphony, I like to start with Levels/Master then target that those low levels a notch or two. Then I go over to HSL/Shadows and bump either "gain" or "setup" to see how it's feeling. I try to stay away from "gamma" but I'll occasionally use it as a last resort. You can always go to Curves/Master and play with the graph a little too, all in the shadow areas, obviously. With RED, it's pretty hard to screw up a shot so you should be okay.

But yeah, just a simple bounce card is all you need - it makes a world of difference. However, as someone always said, it can be too harsh sometimes so you can use a grey instead of white bounce card.

 

[Bryan Colvin]

thanks for the replies. And I should have clarified, I'm referring to the BACKGROUND mainly. I know how to fix such things on the subject. I was talking about LONG running buildings with huge shadows. I only have access to RED on certain shoots so i'll still stuck with the crappy DSLR range. I guess you'd need a crap load of bounces/mirrors/etc to try to fill in those shadows... but it seems you will also need a huge crew to fix that issue before the sun moves far enough that you have to reset it haha. Probably better to just have the better dynamic range and do what you can with a small crew. Thanks again for your input

 

[PatrickFaith]

I've been using multiple 30 foot fly nets to break up the direct sun ... kind of gives "depth" to building shadows and is usable in open fields. It really helps when i'm shooting outside on some scene where someone is working in a garden or field. I tried to use large silks, but man, i little gust on a sheet over 20 feet and you need some serious gear/weight. The fly nets breath a lot more and don't have that kiting effect that large silks have. Also with the fly/bug nets when they fold over and bend a bit, it gives a almost leafy/tree subshadow (i.e. on a silk, if it flaps around a bit, the shadow swing is distracting). large fly nets are fairly cheap, also i just use rope and stuff to tie them to things, so you don't get the big "bar" shadows you can get when using the large framed silks (i.e. silks in the big square aluminum frames). I actually got the idea from Andrew Laszlo, who had a ton of thoughts on doing things like that ... and "good/bad" cinematography( "Every Frame a Rembrandt: Art and Practice of Cinematography").

 

[Bryan Colvin]

I've been using multiple 30 foot fly nets to break up the direct sun ... kind of gives "depth" to building shadows and is usable in open fields. It really helps when i'm shooting outside on some scene where someone is working in a garden or field. I tried to use large silks, but man, i little gust on a sheet over 20 feet and you need some serious gear/weight. The fly nets breath a lot more and don't have that kiting effect that large silks have. Also with the fly/bug nets when they fold over and bend a bit, it gives a almost leafy/tree subshadow (i.e. on a silk, if it flaps around a bit, the shadow swing is distracting). large fly nets are fairly cheap, also i just use rope and stuff to tie them to things, so you don't get the big "bar" shadows you can get when using the large framed silks (i.e. silks in the big square aluminum frames). I actually got the idea from Andrew Laszlo, who had a ton of thoughts on doing things like that ... and "good/bad" cinematography( "Every Frame a Rembrandt: Art and Practice of Cinematography").

ah okay cool! yeah attacking the light instead of the shadow, good idea! And using rope instead of metal frame sounds like a good way to avoid the frame shadow. Great tip, thanks.