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NOOB: Need help with terminology - thanks

Brice LeCarre

Brice LeCarre

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Looking at the chart provided by Phil (thank you Phil) comparing the cameras I am at a loss with a few terms. I was wondering if some of you could shed some RED light to help me understand. I am making the jump to RED RAVEN from a 5D kit so please forgive my ignorance.

OLPF: what are the advantages to be able to interchange them? Also I think it has to do with noise suppression but an explanation would be appreciated.

Acquisition Formats/Aspect Ratio: FF, 2:1, WS, HD, 3:2. I should I read this and how a limiting is it compared with the Scarlett and above?
3D LUT: I know what a LUT is but no a 3D one?

Last question
Pixel resolution. Do the differences have to do with the sensor size only or is the image quality compromised, from a RAVEN viewpoint.

Thank you in advance
 
the OLPF system on the red cameras so far have been interchangeable, much the way the lens mounts can be removed and replaced with a different type. The OLPFs them selves come in a variety of flavors http://www.red.com/store/olpf

The Raven is limited to the "Standard OLPF" which is pretty much going to be the one I will use 75% of the time. Other popular OLPFS include the Low Light OLPF which allows for slightly higher ISO settings and deals with low light a bit better. Having said that, The "Standard" is the "newest" and prob going to be the most common OLPF used in RED cameras now.

This also means you are limited to EF mount only, and you cannot remove it, as it is "Fixed"

As Far as Aspect Ratio, I'm sure lots of other people know way more than me. I DO know the 4.5K sensor is kinda Unique for RED and was added at no extra Charge to the Raven shortly after its announcement. If you are used to a 5D, I would suggest setting it to 4.5k and let the camera do the work, the extra sensor size will allow for room when finishing in 4K

Raven will have the same sensor that its Big brothers will have, the Dragon is great can't go wrong there..
 
For aspect ratio, unless you are very sure the final look will be in 2:1 or WS, or u want to shoot in higher fps or lower compression which is not possible in full 4.5k. Otherwise it is best to shoot in full 4.5k where future cropping can be made in post.
 
Format:
Red calls the DCI (Digital Cinema Initiative) aspect ratios 'FF', so 4k for the cinema is 4kFF in the camera. WS is DCI widescreen. HD is for television formats. 4kHD = UHD. 2:1 is twice as long as it is tall. 3:2 is 3:2, good for printing 4x6 photos.

(6kFF is the exception because it's simply all the pixels on the sensor and has a unique ratio because of it. Also, 6kHD is not exactly 6x the length and height of HD because it wouldn't fit. On raven you don't need to worry about that.)

3D Lut:
A 3D Lut can react to hue, saturation, and value at the same time. If you want to turn all bright, high saturation orange pixels into dark pink you need a 3D lut. If you want to emulate film or a target a certain color space and gamma you need 3D luts.
On the other hand, all Red cameras can do a custom contrast curve which is a 1D lut. You can turn some value into another value, just one dimension to play in.

Resolution:
Because the camera captures raw, if you want lower resolution you use a smaller portion of the sensor. Going from 4k to 2k will double the crop factor, quadruple the size of the noise and quarter the datarate. Also obviously it'll quarter the resolution too, but you'll get a lot more framerate options. If you're used to the 5D, the crop factor of this camera will be much different, but it's actually extremely close the the standard size for motion picture.
 
Thank you all for this. It makes a lot more sense now.
how bad is the noise when you go from 4K to 2k or HD when compare to a 5D frame. I am talking general here, I know different situation will have different results.
also and again compared to the 5D, my only reference, how good will the RAVEN be in low light situations?
All my lenses are Canon L lenses, which means I can only access the Iris control thru the camera body (without gizmos). When RED comes out with a compatible side handle for the RAVEN, will it be possible to program it to control the iris?
i know this is a lot of questions and I really appreciate you guys taking the time to respond. This is an entirely new way for me o f thinking with a new terminology.
I hope in time to contribute to help others on this site.
 
Raven will probably seem noisier to you at first. If you expose properly, you should be able to shoot 640 iso very cleanly and after that you'll start to see texture in the image until around 2500 iso where it will be rather noisy. This is all raw, so there's no change to the data from changing iso, and there's no noise reduction.

The 5D's sensor is happiest at 160 iso (where you get the best dynamic range, noise and color), and at higher ISOs the camera applies noise reduction, analogue and digital gain, and the compression scheme is massively different. (someone correct me here if I'm wrong).

Red looks best at 640, which is two stops more than 5D's 160. Red might feel noisier to you, but only because there's much more data there. 5D rounds off all the noise while Red lets you do it in post, or not, at your discretion.
 
Anton Shavlik said:
Raven will probably seem noisier to you at first. If you expose properly, you should be able to shoot 640 iso very cleanly and after that you'll start to see texture in the image until around 2500 iso where it will be rather noisy. This is all raw, so there's no change to the data from changing iso, and there's no noise reduction.

The 5D's sensor is happiest at 160 iso (where you get the best dynamic range, noise and color), and at higher ISOs the camera applies noise reduction, analogue and digital gain, and the compression scheme is massively different. (someone correct me here if I'm wrong).

Red looks best at 640, which is two stops more than 5D's 160. Red might feel noisier to you, but only because there's much more data there. 5D rounds off all the noise while Red lets you do it in post, or not, at your discretion.
Click to expand...

Thanks Anton this is interesting but at the same time massively confusing. So if it all the same why changing ISO at all? I know I am missing something but I can't my mind wrapped around it.
 
It's a lot like raw photography. You still pick an ISO and expose for it, but if in post you need to brighten or darken it you can as if you shot a different ISO since all the data is still there. Same goes for color temperature.

You still want to get it right when you're shooting, but it adds a lot of flexibility for post. I suggest you find a .r3d (there's a lot in different threads on these forums) and download the free version of Red's software: https://www.red.com/downloads?category=Software&release=final and try it out for yourself.
 
I got curious and found a pretty good explanation on the RED website at
http://www.red.com/learn/red-101/exposure-with-red-cameras

What i got from this thread combined with the article above is that RAW records the information regardless of ISO but setting the ISO remaps the midtown value. Thus increasing the ISO protects the highlights by "lowering" the midtown value on the dynamic range scale and provides more of a gradual roll off. Of course in that case, the shadows become brighter and introduce more noise.

[Edit] The above was incomplete.
With most other cameras, according to RED, changing the ISO also affects the dynamic range. The sensor sees what it sees, this is the physical aspect. Changing the ISO on RED cameras changes how the data is processed but maintain the full dynamic range.
Even though ISO can be changed in post, recording it "properly" exposed with result in a better image, again according to RED.

I think I am getting it now...I think.
 
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yep that's all correct! There's still a sweetspot for the noise / highlight tradeoff and I think most people will rate the Raven around 640 iso.
 
Brice LeCarre said:
I got curious and found a pretty good explanation on the RED website at
http://www.red.com/learn/red-101/exposure-with-red-cameras

What i got from this thread combined with the article above is that RAW records the information regardless of ISO but setting the ISO remaps the midtown value. Thus increasing the ISO protects the highlights by "lowering" the midtown value on the dynamic range scale and provides more of a gradual roll off. Of course in that case, the shadows become brighter and introduce more noise.

[Edit] The above was incomplete.
With most other cameras, according to RED, changing the ISO also affects the dynamic range. The sensor sees what it sees, this is the physical aspect. Changing the ISO on RED cameras changes how the data is processed but maintain the full dynamic range.
Even though ISO can be changed in post, recording it "properly" exposed with result in a better image, again according to RED.

I think I am getting it now...I think.
Click to expand...
Brice, what you stated is pretty spot on as I recall from some Exposure threads from the past (search Off hollywood's Mark L Pederson as I think he started the thread.)

On the other hand, without diving deep into getting a ProRes-ready in-camera perfect exposure, you can just ETTR which gets you all the information in the scene and then correct in post as an R3D. That is, get a histogram that is as far towards, or all the way to the right.

As you noted, moving ISO is changing middle grey. If I understand correctly you may be using a lesser portion of the dynamic range as you are favoring either the low light features or the more lighted features.
 
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Elsie N said:
Brice, what you stated is pretty spot on as I recall from some Exposure threads from the past (search Off hollywood's Mark L Pederson as I think he started the thread.)

On the other hand, without diving deep into getting a ProRes-ready in-camera perfect exposure, you can just ETTR which gets you all the information in the scene and then correct in post as an R3D. That is, get a histogram that is as far towards, or all the way to the right.

As you noted, moving ISO is changing middle grey. If I understand correctly you may be using a lesser portion of the dynamic range as you are favoring either the low light features or the more lighted features.
Click to expand...

Elsie, that is my understanding too.
 
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