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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Non powered firewire cables!

After a worrying series of blown FireWire ports on our RedDrives a couple of years ago we started using the FireWire adaptors that cut the power and never had a problem again, but also the sending back of RedDrives & cables around the same time seemed to cure a lot of the problems (I don't know the ins & outs of what the fix was but maybe Red could chime in on that??).

I certainly think if it's still that big a worry that Red are flagging it up on forums then they should include these very simple types of adaptors/cables with the basic RedDrive kit (charge whatever you want...you can't really put a price on data safety & piece of mind!!). Originally we got ours for a rather unconsiderable sum from here:

http://www.angledcables.com/firewire-800-port-isolator--8009.html
 
Yes, Mike.
Custom cables that do not send power from the computer.
Cheers,
Harry
 
Brent@RED said:
To clarify, the BEST practice is to use a non-powering FW800 cable and the AC power adaptor when offloading from a RED-DRIVE or RED-RAM. This way you only have data and power running on separate channels.

Dusty's method is better than just powering via FW800 (ie, not using the supplied power adaptor AT ALL), sure, but the best is above.

BC
Click to expand...

Non-powered FW800 Cable? Never heard of this before. If this is the case, shouldn't we have been made aware of this right from the beginning? I actually had no problem powering and downloading from the drive with the 800 cable. It worked perfectly time after time. Then, we were told to use the power adapter, problem is, only after I started using the power adapter did 800 ports start blowing. I repaired one, now another has gone and I really don't want to send it in a pay for the repair again if they keep blowing. If I had known about this kind of cable from the beginning I certainly would have made sure that was the only thing ever attached to my drive.
 
The issue isn't really a Red specific issue. Although Firewire was specified as a hot swap connection technology, in reality it has turned out to not be 100% safe. While some people may go their entire drive life never frying their Firewire ports, another may have multiple failures. It may simply be physical/electronic tolerances of parts and cables from different manufacturers, care inserting connectors, physical wear, fate or all of the above which leads to a failure.

The powerless Firewire cables are insurance, but when gear is hired out, it's pot luck whether the hirer actually follows precautions, and they'll lose your power supply too and be reluctant to pay for it!
 
powered cables

powered cables

Ive paid for one of these repair's and was also shocked that I'd never heard of the problem or warned. Seems if its not technically feasible to solve in the design of the drive, then at the very least Red should send a (Large type) warning along with the drives and provide and/or sell non-powered firewire cables through the store.

Its not only an expensive repair but your at the point of downloading your data when this could happen, so were at risk of loosing the hard work you've just produced or your work wont be available for some period of time while a repair takes place.

We try and make our equipment bomb proof from the rental clients, and this little/big issue was a (somewhat hidden) problem waiting to happen.
 
It is indeed not a red specific issue.

I have been using a non powered Firewire 400 cable for some years to protect the ports for example on my Sound Devices recorder. Before that I used it on a JVC HD100 cam. Every time you blew a port on that it cost a $1,000!
 
Brent@RED said:
I will see if that is something we can do.

BC
Click to expand...

WTF? I've spent a fair amount of time on this board, and I've read all of the documentation Red has provided. This is the first time I have heard that non-powered FW800 cables even existed. Using the AC adapter, yes. Non-powered cables? No.

Since this is a truly non-standard practice Red is recommending, Red should ship those cables with the drives.
 
Erich Roland said:
... Its not only an expensive repair but your at the point of downloading your data when this could happen, so were at risk of loosing the hard work you've just produced or your work wont be available for some period of time while a repair takes place...
Click to expand...

Well, you don't lose your data - you just have to download via slower USB2 - but not ideal obviously.
 
Not true. Data can be lost.
In my case, the power surge fried the mainboard and one of the drives in the RAID.
Luckily we were following SOP (reloading after each and every setup) and so only the previous setup was on the drive that blew.
Unfortunately it was the last shot of the day and by the time the tech raised the red flags (drive failed almost at the end of the transfer), talent and most of the crew were on the way home. There was also nothing Red could do to recover the data, unfortunately. It became a question of using a third-party clean room type data recovery service.
Luckily, I was operating B camera and got an acceptable alternate shot, even though it was from an inferior camera meant primarily for stills.
I, too, try to make the gear bulletproof for my clients. Sometimes stuff just happens... turned out OK in my case.
Cheers,
Harry
 
I'll chime in on this thread since a powered FW cable cost me a $1000 when it fried the port. Most frustrating thing ever but you only do it once. I've been extra careful with FW cables ever since.

It's 100% safe to use standard cables as long as everything stays powered down when connecting things.
 
First I've heard of non-powered firewire cables, and I'm pretty in-the-loop. I have heard on numerous occasions that it's recommended we use the external power adapter. We lost ours back in 2007 and have never looked back, powered up the drives via FW800 for over 3 years now, never a problem. Maybe we are just lucky.
 
Harry Clark said:
Not true. Data can be lost.
In my case, the power surge fried the mainboard and one of the drives in the RAID ... drive failed almost at the end of the transfer), talent and most of the crew were on the way home ... Cheers, Harry
Click to expand...

That doesn't sound like a Firewire issue so much as a power supply surge issue! Which is why I have a cheap-ish surge protected power strip as well as a couple of individual in-line mains surge protectors for powering laptop and camera from the mains. Firewire problems that I've heard about have all occurred on connection/disconnection and not while in use. Of course I have no way of knowing that for sure though.

My next purchase may be a small UPS.
 
Eric,
We always use a UPS for both surge protection and uninterrupted power, and were on the day this trouble occurred.
Yes, you are right, a power supply surge.
What I think you are missing is that it's a result of power coming into the drive from 2 sources; the power supply and the FW800. Apparently, there is not protection built into the motherboard.
This is the diagnosis as given by Red.
Cheers,
Harry
 
Just an update.
I got 10 cables the other day and just now put it through my little QC process and guess what?
My special-order, non-powered Firewire 800 cables PASS BUS POWER THROUGH!!!
Hoping it's a mistake on the vendor's end... Brent et. al., do these cables really exist???
Cheers,
Harry
 
Expensive custom non power FW800 cables pass bus power? Shoot!

I hope you guys at RED can get a good supply of genuine ones and have them at all your worldwide bases as well as sending out two with every Drive sold.

Do you guys sell extra power supplies for the drives and can I pick one up from RED UK?
 
Couldn't someone just tell us which pin to remove?

Bit of a bodge but it could be a cheaper solution.
 
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