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Noktor Ultra Fast Cinema Lenses

Noktor

Noktor

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Hello RedUsers.

We are beginning development on high quality cinema lenses, and would love to hear some input. Two questions to start the discussion:

  1. The faster a lens, the harder it is to pull accurate focus. Would you rather see something like an f1.1 design for more frequent use, or an f0.95 for extreme situations?
  2. Would a lower priced, fixed iris lens be acceptable, or do you prefer the versatility of iris control?

Thanks,
- Solomon
 
Checking out the gallery on the home page, do you have any video shot with the lens?
 
Are these geared toward the epic sensor covering 5k? On the site I saw the that the one you have already out is for a 4/3. Thats why I ask.

Thanks
 
The undeveloped focal lengths, would the pricing be circa the 50mm? What would be a rough timetable for delivery of the entire focal range?
 
Go extreme or go home, is my opinion. Once Epic lands with Canon and Nikon mounts ready on day one, a lot of fast stills glass (think EF 50mm 1.2) will become available. I understand the issues of cine-housed lenses vs still, but regardless, you should do something to set yourself aside.

I would say, yes, go extremely fast. But also, go as WIDE as you can. That is where the big hole is in the market. How about 16mm f/1? I don't care if it weighs 100 lbs, I could make use of it.
 
Noktor said:
Hello RedUsers.

We are beginning development on high quality cinema lenses, and would love to hear some input. Two questions to start the discussion:

  1. The faster a lens, the harder it is to pull accurate focus. Would you rather see something like an f1.1 design for more frequent use, or an f0.95 for extreme situations?
  2. Would a lower priced, fixed iris lens be acceptable, or do you prefer the versatility of iris control?

Thanks,
- Solomon
Click to expand...

1. I would vote for faster. So long as the mechanics are smooth, pulling focus at f/0.95 won't be much harder than f/1.2 (like a Master Prime or Super Speed) - my DoF calculator is showing that at 50mm and 6 feet (what I would call a medium-close-up), f/1.2 gives you 3.1" of DOF while f/0.95 gives you 2.4". Not a huge practical difference - you still have to bloody nail it.

Faster also differentiates your product more from the competing products. The other fast cinema lenses are f/1.2 (Master Primes, Super Speeds, the new Leicas, I think - although they may be f/1.3, as they are T/1.4 instead of T/1.3). F/1.1 is not really enough difference to make your lenses stand out from the crowd.

2. Fixed iris is completely unacceptable. Remember that for cinema applications, we can only control exposure by ISO, aperture, and neutral density. ISO you generally want to leave constant throughout a scene (and not be futzing with it shot to shot), and neutral density filters are not normally scene in less than 1-stop varieties. Also, neither can be controlled during the shot. Smooth, click-less aperture control is essential.

I would love to see some reasonably-priced faster options out there. Or even just faster options...
 
fast, fluent iris control, different mounts, same form factor or at least front diameter and please don't make them big and heavy - but thats gonna be an expensive set
 
Must have iris control.

Fast is great, but it has to look good wide open.

You really need to add an 18mm.

Cover full frame 35 would be great.

PL, Nikon, EF mount.

Internal focus. It becomes a problem with cine accessories when the lens changes size.



Dusty
 
First of all I think it is great to have a new player on the cinema lens market!

To answer your questions:

1. Extreme is probably better. And personally I think it would be better to go for the 'interesting' look rather than the perfect lens. All new lenses tend to go for the clean, sharp and evenly illuminated look with big, heavy barrels. If you prefer a softer look with some vignetting you have to go after vintage lenses which become more scarce every day and mostly have bad mechanics.

2. Yes, iris is essential. And focus and iris gears please, a long throw and big numbers.
 
Interesting that no-one would consider a fixed iris lens. In this new age of non-fixed ISO's I should think if a fixed iris brings the price down to $1000 for f1.1 or something ridiculous that you could learn to shoot using ND and ISO for exposure. That is, IF the fixed aperture in question is sharp enough.

I would think if a fixed iris kept the weight and price down it might be a new niche for lenses.

At that price you could have the fixed iris lenses in your toolbox for all your interior/night scenes and have a slower zoom for daylight stuff.

Of course focus gears are essential and I must agree with earlier posts that something wider than 25 mm could be necessary.

Just my thoughts.
 
I'd rather see a 18mm F/1.4 than an uberfast 50. I already have a 50 F/1.2 on my RED and rarely shoot it wide open. The camera bodies are so light sensitive and getting moreso that I have a hard time believing superfast lenses matter that much. Certainly the wider the better - focus on those. And yeah, you should have aperture control.

@ james - lowering ISO on a RED doesn't help. ISO is simply metadata and has no actual effect on reducing the amount of light hitting the sensor.
 
James McLellan said:
Interesting that no-one would consider a fixed iris lens. In this new age of non-fixed ISO's I should think if a fixed iris brings the price down to $1000 for f1.1 or something ridiculous that you could learn to shoot using ND and ISO for exposure. That is, IF the fixed aperture in question is sharp enough.

I would think if a fixed iris kept the weight and price down it might be a new niche for lenses.

At that price you could have the fixed iris lenses in your toolbox for all your interior/night scenes and have a slower zoom for daylight stuff.

Of course focus gears are essential and I must agree with earlier posts that something wider than 25 mm could be necessary.

Just my thoughts.
Click to expand...

Interesting that you would think so, but in a shooting environment it would render the lens only useful when shooting low light situations. I'm having problems already with RED being 320 ASA shooting exterior on a sunny day with ND 1.8 + 0.9 to come down to T4 - what would it look like if I needed to come down 4 more stops :laugh:.... not to talk about the IR level on so many ND in front of the lens

Edit: I was shooting in extreme sunny conditions when I had to come down that much
 
A slight coma

A slight coma

By the laws of physics with any lens at the speed below f/1.4 (T1.3) you can't avoid aberrations like a slight coma:

l1005222.jpg

Leica Noctilux 50mm f/0.95 ASPH: There is slight coma at the outer zones of the image field>>> see at the left side of the picture.

"NX 0.95 wide open

The NX 0.95 is the most recent addition to the Leica CRF scuderia employing aspherics and floating elements.
When comparing the MTF graphs you can appreciate the quantum leap forward at the widest apertures.
At 1:0.95 astigmatism is well controlled as is curvature of field. Overall contrast is low to medium,
but the focus shift when stopping down is very well controlled. This implies that spherical aberration has been
reduced to low amounts, but one cannot expect a lens with such a wide lens diameter to have crisp definition
of fine details. And where fine detail is soft, the delineations of major subject outlines will be soft too.
To get sharp edges at subject outlines, we need lots of high frequencies to create this sharp boundary.
The performance of the old Zunow lens at 1:1.1 can only be described as a last resort when you desperately need that picture.
The NX at 1:0.95 performs so well that you hardly will guess that the picture was made with a superfast lens.
At this point in the report, we need to take great care in examining the performance profile of the NX.
When testing a lens, and even when just examining the results of the lens, it is quite easy to select and present the good,
the bad and the ugly aspects of a lens. The occurrence of vignetting is such a case.
The technical data sheet reports a vignetting value of 20% at the edges or more than two and a half stops.
There are picture situations where you will very clearly see this strong darkening in the edges.
But there are also many instances where the vignetting is negligible. We should also be aware of the optical specifications.
A superfast lens with a wider angle of view will exhibit vignetting, caused by a number of factors: size of mechanical mount,
cosine 4 law, and image distortion. There is a trade off between distortion and vignetting and the Leica design favors a low level of distortion,
in my view a fine choice. This discussion is not meant to diminish the effect of vignetting in the Nx 0.95 but to indicate
that we should differentiate between an optical error and an optical given. Focus shift on the other hand is an error that
can be corrected without severely effecting other aberrations.

Erwin Puts - Tao of Leica>>>
 
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