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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Noise on the low end but even worse scary megenta lines

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Elsie N said:
Just a suggestion... keep a copy of firmware 5.1.51, the current release build, in case the "fix" takes away some of the superior highlight and color performance. I would hope that not be the case, but better to plan for all contingencies.
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Firmware is not going to touch the top end.. nor the color performance that comes with the new OLPF. It will however neutralize the color shift that is happening on the noise in the low end.
 
Jarred Land said:
Firmware is not going to touch the top end.. nor the color performance that comes with the new OLPF. It will however neutralize the color shift that is happening on the noise in the low end.
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Which sounds like a good way to find easy waters and all around rejoicement
 
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Gunleik Groven said:
Hahahaha
Well, I am happy :)
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That's all that really matters :)

People just need to figure out what OLPF they want, and if they want their stop to be at the top or at the bottom and select the OLPF that is right for them. The vast majority have chosen the right one ( the new OLPF ) and are very happy with it but there are a few vocal people that want to see that OLPF back and we are happy to put it in their cameras.
 
Jarred Land said:
That's all that really matters :)

People just need to figure out what OLPF they want, and if they want their stop to be at the top or at the bottom and select the OLPF that is right for them. The vast majority have chosen the right one ( the new OLPF ) and are very happy with it but there are a few vocal people that want to see that OLPF back and we are happy to put it in their cameras.
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Yes. And giving that choice is mostly a non-problem, as long as they are not mixed in the same setup, end then, you can leverage them with either putting in a MotionMount or an ND in the cam with the old OLPF.

ND's/Motionmount/and lights still are parts of a few kits...
 
any date for the new firmware ?
 
Ivan McCullough said:
Thats all great guys but please consider having some kind of physical way of determining which version of the camera it is. Any potential doubt could make Dragon a hard sell on multi-cam shoots. If I may be so bold please make the 'right' choice in this respect.
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We will have to inform our customers. At this time it is probably possible to mark those that gets the old OLPF retro-fit, but I kinda think this will not be a larger issue than we make it.
 
Jan Reiff said:
any date for the new firmware ?
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I don't have, of course. But as I suggest earlier in this thread, you can get pretty far by working on the luma/chroma levels in the lower end of the red channel, as an input LUT if you see the tendency described here. Has at least worked well on the shots I have tested it on. No promises, but a good hunch...
 
just curious to see the difference then, ... as i don´t have those bad feelings with my dragon footage as some here, our results with the dragon are quite clean in controlled light situations ... of course every improvement is welcome
 
Ivan McCullough said:
couple of things

You work for RED? did not know that, congrats.

Also, OLPF difference issue wise.....if it is a big enough reason to swap out the OLPF that RED believed was ready for the launch of their flagship product, essentially a mini-recall, then It is a big enough issue to know which cameras have it and which ones don't, no?
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My take is that Gunleik was referring to whatever entity he is a part of that may furnish their camera(s) for projects of others. I don't think he works for RED, else his name would be in red letters?

I agree there should be some visible sign of the OLPF in a camera, but nothing permanent since a future firmware version could cause a person or rental house to change their mind and send in for a change in OLPF. If it is doable, maybe the firmware could determine the OLPF version and display that in the menu.

But from the sound of Jarred's post last night, it appears they believe they can keep the current highlight and color rendition from the new OLPF and tweak the "red fireflys" as someone referred to them, so they are no longer an issue.
 
Ivan McCullough said:
Ah, ok, not good enough for producers.

"whats that weird flare, it wasn't coming from the candles last week on main unit?"

"Oh, that must be one of the 'old OLPF' Dragons..."

"The What?..come again?.."
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Yes, this is a big mess, and someone from Red has to come up with a strong PR strategy once the remedy is found, or else Red will no longer be sellable on large prods.
 
Jarred Land said:
That's all that really matters :)

People just need to figure out what OLPF they want, and if they want their stop to be at the top or at the bottom and select the OLPF that is right for them. The vast majority have chosen the right one ( the new OLPF ) and are very happy with it but there are a few vocal people that want to see that OLPF back and we are happy to put it in their cameras.
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Well this is interesting. So let me get this straight. We have 2 options:

1) old OLPF: flare prone, super clean blacks up to 2000iso, 1 stop less in highlights
2) new OLPF: no flares, 1 stop more in the highlights, noisier low end, (better color?)

Does this sound right? Haven't had my hands on a Dragon yet...
 
Jarred Land said:
That's all that really matters :)

People just need to figure out what OLPF they want, and if they want their stop to be at the top or at the bottom and select the OLPF that is right for them. The vast majority have chosen the right one ( the new OLPF ) and are very happy with it but there are a few vocal people that want to see that OLPF back and we are happy to put it in their cameras.
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If the choices are: OLD OLPF with magenta orb flare or NEW OLPF with more noise in shadows than MX at same ISO then I'm not going to be thrilled. The three things I've wanted in this upgrade are 1)Better color 2)More Dynamic Range and 3) Less noise at same or higher ISOs. I guess I just want it all! :)
 
Jarred Land said:
That's all that really matters :)

People just need to figure out what OLPF they want, and if they want their stop to be at the top or at the bottom and select the OLPF that is right for them. The vast majority have chosen the right one ( the new OLPF ) and are very happy with it but there are a few vocal people that want to see that OLPF back and we are happy to put it in their cameras.
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Interesting. I guess this begs the question how future development is impacted with improving firmware for two OLPFs? Also, for those with Dragon and the new OLPF, how is the noise when down sampled to 4K? It seems a lot of tests seem to be judging it at 6K.
 
Eric Haase said:
If the choices are: OLD OLPF with magenta orb flare or NEW OLPF with more noise in shadows than MX at same ISO then I'm not going to be thrilled. The three things I've wanted in this upgrade are 1)Better color 2)More Dynamic Range and 3) Less noise at same or higher ISOs. I guess I just want it all! :)
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No, you just want what you were sold!
 
Ivan McCullough said:
I think thats what was advertised though.

No camera is everything those who make it claim it is, partly because subjectivity comes into play but....this is a botched launch...twice...It needs to be accepted and fixed, not band-aided like the first time. Fixed in a way that all Dragon owners have the same camera because that is the camera they all want.
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I think you want RED to be a cookie-cutter camera company like everyone else besides RED. There are probably others who want the same "finish-then-stop" changing of the camera. RED makes such a camera. It is called the R-1.

But if I read the mentality of the many, many, many, Epic and Dragon owners, it is "keep on keepin' on"... that is, keep making the camera better. The majority see the new OLPF as a vast improvement, thanks in no small measure to the pushing by Eric Haase. But even he does not seem to endorse a cookie cutter camera. He wants a camera that works easiest for him.

There are many ways to rig a RED camera and because of that alone, there will never be a "uniform" RED camera. Instead of trying to get RED to regress, I think the better solution is to become more familiar with the camera you may or may not use.

I'm speaking out because I like the way RED operates. As I've said many times, I've never been treated as well by any other camera company... make that, any other company period, as I've been treated by Red Digital Cinema.
 
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