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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

No NAB for RED...

Shawn Nelson said:
Hopefully this is a one year hiatus and Jim will decide to bring Red back for NAB 2010
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Yeah lets hope so. I was looking forward to seeing everyone again...Redusers that is. I get to see the RED team enough but I'm glad I get to.
 
John Redfern said:
Well, while I understand the current reason for Red concentrating on finalizing the product rather than showing more dummies - as indeed Jim has said, I do hope they don't continue the trend of forsaking shows in future, like Apple and others.

I go to IBC in Amsterdam every year and if Red hadn't been there in 2007 I would never have ordered my Red One. In 2008 Red just had a lounge to meet and chat - and that was invaluable. Ted was a great help to me as a tyro user and really set me on the road to success with the camera. The Reduser event was also a great meeting place and learning forum.

But also at IBC I saw and purchased all my Red add-ons, matte boxes, tripods, motion control etc. etc.

The absence of Red would be sad - but certainly wouldn't stop me from going.

This is all from a European perspective. If I was based in the States, it would apply to NAB and I'd definitely be there.

John
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I second your post.
 
NAB 2009 - what RED SHOULD do...

NAB 2009 - what RED SHOULD do...

One of the things you can't afford to do is leave a gaping hole in perception of those that are not "tuned in" to RED already. If RED were to do a channel partners tent, or more importantly, just do RED cinema - like before, only with updates and a marketing presence on the floor so that press doesn't have an excuse to throw RED under the bus (I know quite a few that get their underwriting from the big three that would LOVE to poo poo RED for not being there - and unfortunately, many people read those awful articles because they are published in trade monthlies). So - at least some presence - something that focuses not on product, but results of the product might be good for those that are actually going to be there.

Just my two cents (from a NAB marketing vet/douchebag)
~Drew
 
prometheanfilms said:
One of the things you can't afford to do is leave a gaping hole in perception of those that are not "tuned in" to RED already. If RED were to do a channel partners tent, or more importantly, just do RED cinema - like before, only with updates and a marketing presence on the floor so that press doesn't have an excuse to throw RED under the bus (I know quite a few that get their underwriting from the big three that would LOVE to poo poo RED for not being there - and unfortunately, many people read those awful articles because they are published in trade monthlies). So - at least some presence - something that focuses not on product, but results of the product might be good for those that are actually going to be there.

Just my two cents (from a NAB marketing vet/douchebag)
~Drew
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Drew has a good point. After all Red One is nothing to be ashamed off... Small cine with 4K/2K showreel, few displays with Red One various configs (heavy-duty cine, light-weight steadi, ENG, EFP, etc...) with Kelly smile will not hurt anyone - quite the contrary...

:) Peter
 
RedDay as official holiday

RedDay as official holiday

Red Day should be a Californian Woodstock
 
While many companies will be pulling out of NAB for various reasons history shows that those that retreat from the public and slash their staff and marketing budget will probably not make it through this recession. One need only read stories from the Great Depression. Those companies that find creative ways to keep their company moving forward have a better chance of survival.

Red pulling out of NAB won't make any difference to its bottom line as it continues to have a strong presence via the internet and has proven that it can communicate effectively to its customers online. They do it better than just about any company out there. But they know as you know that there is nothing like face to face meetings with people who share your passion. Thats where deals are made and that is where you really learn. And that is what will be missed most of all. Touching old technology and talking new technology to the creators is still a powerful high.

I co-produce these events we call SuperMeets at Macworld, NAB and IBC. They are grass roots organized events. They are a place for like minded people to gather, share ideas, network, help each other, learn more stuff, drink to much and just have a good ol' time. We are doing it again this year on Tuesday April 21. Not sure where yet, but we are in middle of negotiating with a venue and as soon as we get the price right we will announce. Probably next week.

Why are we doing it? Easy answer. Same reason we have done it for the last 8 years. Because people need to gather. We are not buying into the "doom and gloom and the world is going to hell" that permeates throughout all discussion. Let's face it, we are all freelancers and have never known a secure job in our lives. So this economic downturn doesn't mean much to us. We will survive because we just know how to survive. We've been doing it for years.

The important thing here and more important today than yesterday is to not retreat from human contact and get out into the world and meet and greet those people that may just change your lives. You just can't do that online. Make this Red event happen. You do not need the support of Red, you just need the support of each other. And that support is here.

Just don't do it on Tuesday April 21.

:)
 
Fantastic News!

Fantastic News!

This is great step forward for the industry, as it needs to drive innovation independent of artificial time frames. New products should be displayed and shipped when they are fully ready. Paying millions of dollars to a group of glorified lobbyist, also known as NAB, is not going to make the trade show any better. The only way to force real change to this organization is to stop paying them. More vendors should follow this trend, and force these bloated organizations to offer a better show.
 
BradWright said:
This is great step forward for the industry, as it needs to drive innovation independent of artificial time frames. New products should be displayed and shipped when they are fully ready. Paying millions of dollars to a group of glorified lobbyist, also known as NAB, is not going to make the trade show any better. The only way to force real change to this organization is to stop paying them. More vendors should follow this trend, and force these bloated organizations to offer a better show.
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This kind of statement is most likely coming from someone who a) has never been to NAB (or at least someone who either hasn't worked in the industry or has been in it for only a short time), and b) thinks Jim is infallible and anything he decides must be brilliant and the correct and only course of action for anyone in the business world who wants to survive. Neither of these circumstances lead to informed, sensible conclusions. Red has made their decision, based on their particular business needs at the moment, to forego the industry's leading trade show. That does not in itself imply anything regarding the value of trade shows (and, more importantly, the conferences connected with them, which many of us find quite valuable - and my guess is you might not even be familiar with the fact that there even is a conference program), nor does it imply that no Red representatives will be attending, because my guess is that they surely will (I spent a bit of time with both Ted and Graeme last year).
 
mmost said:
This kind of statement is most likely coming from someone who a) has never been to NAB (or at least someone who either hasn't worked in the industry or has been in it for only a short time), and b) thinks Jim is infallible and anything he decides must be brilliant and the correct and only course of action for anyone in the business world who wants to survive. Neither of these circumstances lead to informed, sensible conclusions.
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I respectfully disagree. Companies should produce products when they are ready and not when the trade show looms deadlines. I've been to NAB for the last 4 years. It has become an increasingly smaller show. Several high profile vendors pulled out last year because they could not justify the cost involved in the show. Not enough ROI.
 
BradWright said:
I respectfully disagree. Companies should produce products when they are ready and not when the trade show looms deadlines. I've been to NAB for the last 4 years. It has become an increasingly smaller show. Several high profile vendors pulled out last year because they could not justify the cost involved in the show. Not enough ROI.
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Companies DO produce products "when they're ready." Trade shows serve the multiple purpose of gathering those who work in the industry together, and allowing companies to show new products and existing products, whether in finished or prototype form - or, in many cases, as a mockup. This gives them feedback from potential customers as to the practicality or desirability of those products, and at the same time, permits those who do not live in industry centers like Los Angeles, New York, and London to see and try products that they would not otherwise see unless they arrange for a demo unit - and in those cases, one does not usually get a demo artist to "cut to the chase" and show the most important features in actual operation. Nor does one get to talk to other users of the equipment to get their opinions on strengths and weaknesses based on real experience. My personal observation - based on going to NAB just about every year since 1981 - is that NAB has simply gotten too big to be as focused as it needs to be (and once was), and a large part of that has come about due to the participation in recent years of players such as Apple. Their participation encouraged a lot of people who don't really work in the industry to view NAB as a kind of quasi-CES show rather than a trade show specifically for the broadcast and post production industry. Once that happened, a lot of time in a lot of booths began to be spent explaining basic things to people who would never be in a position to buy what they're being shown. A good example is students taking up 25 minutes at the DaVinci booth being shown the basics of what a 2K is used for, and in the process, causing those who might actually become DaVinci customers to move on to other things. For some of the larger exhibitors - Avid comes to mind - this led to a general perception that the show was no longer effective in spreading their message to the "real" potential customers they want to reach. However, the fact that they're participating again this year seems to indicate that after going "suite only," they now believe that a floor presence is indeed worthwhile. I do expect the show overall to be smaller this year, but that's due primarily to the economic situation rather than the general effectiveness of trade shows.
And my prediction is that even Red will ultimately participate in future NAB shows, in part because the press attention gained from these shows is itself very valuable in spreading the message to those in the industry, many of whom do not have the time - or the inclination - to spend half of their day on RedUser.
 
Besides which, while a show like NAB isn't economical for everyone, it's one way for a small vendor with a new or niche product to get seen and talked about in the same context as the giants of the industry. The trade show model has flaws, but it also offers a lot of benefits.
 
Eddy Robinson said:
Besides which, while a show like NAB isn't economical for everyone, it's one way for a small vendor with a new or niche product to get seen and talked about in the same context as the giants of the industry.
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That's true. I doubt that Red would have gotten nearly as much attention from the industry had they not made a big splash at the last two NAB shows.
 
mmost said:
That's true. I doubt that Red would have gotten nearly as much attention from the industry had they not made a big splash at the last two NAB shows.
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Now that they have the attention of the industry, they no longer need to be at NAB. The general trend seems to be for the established companies to run their own road shows or events. It looks like this is the future for the industry and, once again, Red is on the cutting edge of this.
 
BradWright said:
Now that they have the attention of the industry, they no longer need to be at NAB. The general trend seems to be for the established companies to run their own road shows or events.
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Well, yes, they do run their own events - but in addition to their participation in industry wide trade shows. Companies are not bigger than the industries they purport to serve unless one wants to go through their working life with blinders on. But time will tell.
 
the 2 times I've been to NAB, I came away with knowledge of several new technologies that I wouldn't have even thought of searching for on the Internet.
Last year, one of the cool things I saw was a company that is able to install a 4 to 6K generator attached to your truck engine (Plus appropriate wiring to take advantage of it). Not completely original, but very innovative and relatively affordable compared to bringing a towed Gen. I'm very interested in a fully functional mobile studio setup that doesn't require a high six figure investment.

Or the company that installed a Satellite transceiver into one of the hard luggage cases of a Honda St1300 touring motorcycle.

Or watching Nuke in action, or..

the list goes on...

Being able to have face to face with these companies was much more productive and informative than exchanging email.
 
Nick Wolf said:
Whats the "M" stand for?

Must be "Megalomania" cause it sure ain`t "Manners"

=Ö= Feel free to put me on your shit list =Ö=

Cheers,

DogDay.
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Nick, when a seasoned, experienced pro offers good advice, you should just keep your mouth shut and listen. really. Feel free to put me on your slist
lamer.
 
Guys, come on play nice. This is a bit crazy. You can fall on either side of the argument, but respect your peers.

One of the things I like about NAB and other trade shows is it gives me a chance to interact with companies, put faces to names, get into good discussions about technology, and discover new tools to incorporate into my work. I don't think NAB is the only way to get this kind of interaction, but it is effective. Guys like Mike Most have been going for a long time and have built up relationships with vendors and colleagues that are important when making decisions about equipment purchases. I think it's a perfectly valid argument. I also think it's valid to find your resources in other places (online, local trade shows, local vendors, workshops, etc).

Red is going to have a presence at NAB. Look at how many magazine articles have had stories about Red lately. The camera will be all over the place at the show, as will footage I'm sure. It just won't be an official Red tent. It will be third party vendors and those who have a vested interest in Red products. It's not like Red is going into hiding. Heck, they interact with us on a daily basis.

And lastly, for a shameless plug, I wouldn't dismiss the Reduser event just yet. I think you're going to find it might be worth the trip out to Vegas. But, this is not the place to find the official announcement, so we'll leave it at that. :wink:
 
I'm very curious about the Reduser event, Steve, and I know a lot of folks, myself included, are on the fence about NAB this year (mostly, for me, the time/budget issue, I can't afford to lose another $600 at the tables, heh, no tax writedown there...). So the sooner that you can let the cat out of the bag, the better...

I agree with Mike, that RED will be back to NAB. I think that for the size of the RED company, their manpower is just better put to work on fulfilling the vision that they've mapped this year - if they attended NAB in April, they would mostly be putting together a booth that would reiterate that...I'd rather see products sooner, than prototypes now.

Unlike Sony, who sends paid trade show operators to NAB, RED sends the heads of their company and their core employees to work the booth -- I'm sure those same people have to spend a shitload of time building that booth on the front end, which we don't even see.

I say, whip em and ride em to get the new stuff out, instead of sending them to market, to market. The new stuff will undoubtedly be so amazing that it will sell itself, but it has to be built first. The NAB consumer ranks are likely to be thinner this year, anyway, with the economy and all, it's a not a year to get the best bang for the buck, they'll pay the same money for a thinner audience...

They'll be back. This is just a very good year to focus on development.

I'd rather see RED RAY in release, not another RED RAY prototype in a booth...let them keep the mo-mo going, uninterrupted.

P.S. Someone oughta make Steve a moderator, if he's willing, he does more than most mods to referee some of these hot-headed discussions, and he does it with so much goodwill towards everybody....
 
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