No Excuses This Time...

[Patrick O'Sullivan]

I went out on a job the other day and I finally got to take a look at some of the footage. I threw it all in Premiere and put together the story as I'd laid it out before. Popped it into DaVinci and went to work on the color. Rendered it out in After Effects and then bam. Disappointment.

Sitting there checking it out I was struck by a fact that I knew existed but hadn't actually been confronted with up until this point.

These cameras don't allow for excuses.
They remove the ever comfortable warmth (that 99.9% of shooters out there have and hide in the dark corner of their minds) of believing your talent exceeds your equipment.

If your shot blows it is actually because you screwed it up or you don't know what you are doing or you aren't good enough to pull that shot off. If your clip/film/tvc blows it isn't the image quality bringing it down.

That is a pretty big dose of reality for those people who have just joined the RED party. A shit shot is still a shit shot on a RED it is just sharper and cleaner and 5k.

So you either get it or you don't. You've either got the ability or you don't.

I'm happy with the image but let down by the way I told the story.

Oh well at least I know who to blame.

****Update: I just uploaded a clip to go along with the stills. THis is very different then the client version which is different color and Cuban themed. Enjoy****

 

[Scott Crawley]

Amen brother! Armed with that you can better target your efforts and get down to some serious work. No more BS!

 

[Bob Gundu]

You're right Patrick and I can go on and on about how content is key, but I fear we can get slammed on this as many state this forum is a technical one, and one should leave the art of storytelling at the door.

 

[SeanBrown]

Great post!

 

[paulherrin]

Well, it does look pretty good at least - I like your treatment of the image. And if you are able to recognize your deficiencies in storytelling - that means you are growing as an artist. Don't be disappointed, convert that energy into positive effort. It is natural and good to perceive ourselves out of shape, that pushes us towards balance and realizing our purpose and potential. Thanks for sharing, I'm sure many are having the same experience - and I'm willing to bet a few of the respected veterans around here can attest to having walked the same road. Don't be discouraged, you're very well on your way. Forget everything and simply see the world afresh... keep creating

 

[Scott Crawley]

You're right Patrick and I can go on and on about how content is key, but I fear we can get slammed on this as many state this forum is a technical one, and one should leave the art of storytelling at the door.

That could happen, but if you made very specific observations about the images that will facilitate communicating that key content through cinematography then nobody will be able to fault you. Be specific and stay focused on our craft. As Patrick said, there is no place to hide here. You can not hide behind vague remarks, or put it off on other disciplines like writing or editorial department.

Let's man up and get into the meat of it... No fluff or fillers. Post the piece and state the objectives Patrick. How about it? Alternatively you could just state the objectives and we might attempt to discuss how the frames you already posted meet, or fail to meet those objectives.

 

[Joseph Coleman]

I was thinking about starting a thread on how much owning a red has improved my outlook on my own work. Before, when using a DSLR I always had something to fall back on when the shot didn't turn out the way I wanted. Now because I own a Scarlet I have no excuses. I can only blame myself for things not coming out well. For me it has really pushed me to better myself and my skills. I can definitely relate.

 

[Patrick O'Sullivan]

Let's man up and get into the meat of it... No fluff or fillers. Post the piece and state the objectives Patrick. How about it?

I will definitely post it as soon as I get it signed off.

None of those shots are in the actual piece. Same shoot just didn't make the cut.

 

[Zeb B]

I've learned "careful what you wish for in SDOF". Fuckstick . . . my F1.2 - 1.4 Canon glass has a tight focal range at anywhere near wide open! I mean like eye lash to eyeball. Didn't notice this so much with AF in the still world since I used strobes and shot at whatever Fstop I wanted. Chasing focus on talent in low light with a hand held rig is like trying to thread a needle while riding a bike. I'm closing down now to F4+/- and using wider glass and bringing in lights when needed . . . just because you can shoot wide open doesn't mean you should. Results are the only thing that matters and there's no fix for lack of focus at the critical time.

 

[Nick Morrison]

I will definitely post it as soon as I get it signed off.

None of those shots are in the actual piece. Same shoot just didn't make the cut.

Hey Patrick did you shoot her on the Contax 85 1.4 or the 50 1.4? I'm trying to figure it out...I love playing that game of what did they shoot it on, what focal length?

Actually, now that I've looked at it CAREFULLY...I'm pretty sure its the 35 1.4. Am I correct? I know you use that a lot, as do I, and I'm thinking more and more that's the one....Lemme know!

Sorry...didn't mean to hijack the thread...I just had to ask...

AND NOW...back to our regularly scheduled programming....

 

[Erich Ocean]

I've learned "careful what you wish for in SDOF". Fuckstick . . . my F1.2 - 1.4 Canon glass has a tight focal range at anywhere near wide open! I mean like eye lash to eyeball. Didn't notice this so much with AF in the still world since I used strobes and shot at whatever Fstop I wanted. Chasing focus on talent in low light with a hand held rig is like trying to thread a needle while riding a bike. I'm closing down now to F4+/- and using wider glass and bringing in lights when needed . . . just because you can shoot wide open doesn't mean you should. Results are the only thing that matters and there's no fix for lack of focus at the critical time.

That's exactly why I'm shooting 3K now with fast Super16 primes. You get the benefits of fast glass (T1.3) with reasonable depth of field (acts like a 2.8).

I want to be able to run and gun in low light, and I just can't pull focus well enough to shoot S35 in low light with fast glass, and I have no idea how the people shooting on a 5D are doing it either!

 

[Erich Ocean]

I'm happy with the image but let down by the way I told the story.

One thing I've had success with is shooting my story first with a camcorder (though you can use your RED if you want to). The purpose is not to get great lighting, etc., it's to figure out how to tell the story. I edit together the crappy camcorder footage and learn so much it's crazy. By the time the actual shoot comes around, I'm well prepared and already know the story works – I'm just upping the production value at that point.

For shoots that are dialogue driven, I've even just recorded the dialogue for the script without any video, and edited that together. The edited footage is usually quite a bit tighter, and I can see what shots I need to get as I'm doing the edit.

Hope this helps!

Best, Erich

 

[Nick Morrison]

That's exactly why I'm shooting 3K now with fast Super16 primes. You get the benefits of fast glass (T1.3) with reasonable depth of field (acts like a 2.8).

I want to be able to run and gun in low light, and I just can't pull focus well enough to shoot S35 in low light with fast glass, and I have no idea how the people shooting on a 5D are doing it either!

This is very interesting. I've been thinking about shooting with a Zeiss 10-100 T2 lens at 2k for similar reasons (can't afford a S16 zoom yet)...but I love where your head is at!

 

[Nick Morrison]

I've learned "careful what you wish for in SDOF". Fuckstick . . . my F1.2 - 1.4 Canon glass has a tight focal range at anywhere near wide open! I mean like eye lash to eyeball. Didn't notice this so much with AF in the still world since I used strobes and shot at whatever Fstop I wanted. Chasing focus on talent in low light with a hand held rig is like trying to thread a needle while riding a bike. I'm closing down now to F4+/- and using wider glass and bringing in lights when needed . . . just because you can shoot wide open doesn't mean you should. Results are the only thing that matters and there's no fix for lack of focus at the critical time.

On this note, I have an interesting observation. It stems from that fact that I own a BILLION Contax Zeiss lenses, and I've played with all of them and noticed something interesting. Which is as follows:

My 35 1.4 has a much THINNER plane of focus across all it's apertures than my Contax 35 2.8. What I mean is, if both the 35 1.4 and 35 2.8 are at an F4, clearly the IMAGE will look almost EXACT. However, the PLANE OF FOCUS...ie...how much of a wiggle of the focus ring changes what's in focus...remained much more SENSITIVE on the 35 1.4...Just a tiny change in focus threw things noticeably off...Whereas the 35 2.8 was much more forgiving....I could rotate the focus barrel much more to the left and right and watch the focal plane change much more gradually....it was more forgiving....

It made me think that fast lenses may have this as part of their architecture. I'm almost certain that my 85 1.4 vs my 85 2.8 behave in much the same way. The most extreme example of this is my 35-70 ZOOM, which at 35mm F4 keeps almost everything in focus no matter which way I turn the focus ring...its the most forgiving lens in terms of focus that I have, by leaps and bounds...but I think that has a lot todo with the nature of Zoom designs...they do weird things.

But the point is...different lenses designs clearly produce THINNER or FATTER planes of focus....at least in my experience....and maybe I'm crazy here, but it's something I've begun to consider.

It's one of the reasons I still hold onto my 35 2.8 because it just does some things differently than my 35 1.4...

Anyway...don't mean to hijack the thread again...but this question of SHALLOW DEPTH OF FIELD and lens design I think is pretty fascinating...

 

[Matthew Scott]

Great post...thanks for sharing I've felt the same way after my first two shoots with Scarlet. Disappointed...but only with my self. It's almost intimidating having such an amazing camera......but I'm slowly getting over it

 

[Zeb B]

@Nick
I really need to spend a day or three running the tests to get a crib sheet as to my working DOF envelope for each of my lenses (ex: 85mm/1.2 = nose to ear @5.6). Seems like you have done same.

Remember:

"Wisdom is the Fuck-ups Your Remember"

(yup, I made that up)

 

[paulherrin]

One thing I've had success with is shooting my story first with a camcorder (though you can use your RED if you want to). The purpose is not to get great lighting, etc., it's to figure out how to tell the story. I edit together the crappy camcorder footage and learn so much it's crazy. By the time the actual shoot comes around, I'm well prepared and already know the story works – I'm just upping the production value at that point.

For shoots that are dialogue driven, I've even just recorded the dialogue for the script without any video, and edited that together. The edited footage is usually quite a bit tighter, and I can see what shots I need to get as I'm doing the edit.

Hope this helps!

Best, Erich

That's a really great idea, Erich. Thanks for sharing.

 

[paulherrin]

Josh, I really like some of your posts. This doesn't happen to be one of them... Forgive me for not 'getting' the joke - although there is (ironically) some wisdom in your statement. And, since you brought it up, seems to be a good learning point.

Visual Storytelling as a Mode of Wisdom: An Artistic/Philosophical View

Sapience (wisdom) is what we have, in this age, decided most clearly sets us apart from other species. We have the immediate ability to update our instinctual responses based on experience - whether that be personal, collective, or ancestral. In terms that might make most sense to our culture: there is reason to believe that even our very DNA carries information and wisdom passed down from our ancestors. We have developed spoken language, written language, film language and we are in the process of developing this whole internet thing - all these communications, at their core, have served to pass along information and wisdom one to another. These staples of society have absolutely changed the structure of our communications, resulting in more immediate adaptations of new ideas and access to old ideas that now survive generations and 'dark' ages. Even though most of our culture has forgotten the wisdom of the ancients, I can still look at their surviving writings, even their architecture and enter the process of remembering. Years from now, someone can dig up the old HD material and talk about all the pixels they see (I jest, but seriously - Jim knows what he's talking about), then they can see the records of this very revolution in the industry - they will see the wisdom Jim has shown by doing things differently, and thus gain a better understanding of their place in time - perspective for the issues of their day - this will change the future for them. There is great wisdom in approaching such things with a certain thoughtfulness. As far as I'm aware, none of us chose to be born homo sapiens... and yet here we are with this amazing gift passed down from those that came before us. That's huge.

So, yes, we do learn from our mistakes (and oftentimes not, it seems) - but what we really learn from and what lasts throughout time are the magical, happy accidents of doing things right like they've never been done before. There was the first community storytelling, the first cave drawing, the first book, the first photograph, the first moving picture, the first affordable 4k digital cinema camera... But when these things are discovered, it's amazing! Then we say wow, this is so much more effective and full of purpose. Now this story can be understood and shared in a more meaningful way. Now, I can communicate with a global network in real-time. I can transmit my vision into the future (only if you shoot 4k of course This stuff that we're doing is changing the present and the future - and hopefully for the better. Sapience changes everything - it is at the heart of our evolution as a species. So too, our arts and crafts evolve, there is so much potential to tell stories in new and exciting ways, but only when we take a minute to stop looking at each shot individually and consider the whole picture. Our mistakes make us realize that there is more to be found - and what we have to find is wisdom. Wise Man must only remember that he is wise.

 

[Zeb B]

. . . does your head actually think like that or are you going College Professor on my ass?

 

[paulherrin]

my head actually thinks like that... i know - pretty wild. i have to live with it all the time, so you're lucky to just get a small dose.