NLE+grading advice needed

[Arturo Sánchez]

Hi guys,
In the next coming months I'm planning to jump to the RED camp with a Scarlet W.

I would like to use a single application for both editing and color correction, because right now i hate working with the XML workflow (premiere to davinci).

Which way would you go for, Davinci or Premiere Pro? If i go for premiere pro I would grade it all inside premiere like here http://www.red.com/learn/workflow/adobe-cc-premiere-pro-red-overview

Any suggestions? All Premiere or all Davinci?
I know that the .R3D files from the Scarlet W are not supported by Premiere yet, but a new version of Premiere it's coming very soon.

 

[Kwan Khan]

My vote for Premiere Pro + Speedgrade

I uses almost everyday... Redcine -> Ppro -> AU -> AE + PS -> SG -> AME and DONE... for me, There Is Nothing Out There Like This!

 

[Arturo Sánchez]

Hi Kwan,
Thanks for the advice.
I would like to stick with a single app, not two, so the question is PREMIERE or RESOLVE?

My vote for Premiere Pro + Speedgrade

I uses almost everyday... Redcine -> Ppro -> AU -> AE + PS -> SG -> AME and DONE... for me, There Is Nothing Out There Like This!

 

[Arturo Sánchez]

What do you mean with PS, Photoshop? How do you use Photoshop with it?

My vote for Premiere Pro + Speedgrade

I uses almost everyday... Redcine -> Ppro -> AU -> AE + PS -> SG -> AME and DONE... for me, There Is Nothing Out There Like This!

 

[Chris McKechnie]

FCPX and Color Finale (plugin used directly within FCPX) is an amazing combination!

 

[Ulf Krentz]

With all the improvements of the recent Resolve I´m tempted to skip the renewal of my Adobe subscription.

 

[Arturo Sánchez]

Thanks for the advice.
I have one question about your workflow though: Is Color finale grading the raw data? so if not i can't imagine it as a non-destructive gradint tool.

FCPX and Color Finale (plugin used directly within FCPX) is an amazing combination!

 

[Scot Yount]

FCPX with the RED plugin gives you access to the raw data. And as Mr. McKechnie is telling you, Color Finale works well for grading. You aren't going to get power windows in the traditional form, but you can use masks within FCPX to do some pretty cool stuff. All within the NLE.


Edit: And if you would like to see what Color Finale can do, check out the promo video for the app, as all the material in it was shot by Mr. McKechnie as well.

Color Finale

 

[Kwan Khan]

Hi Kwan,
Thanks for the advice.
I would like to stick with a single app, not two, so the question is PREMIERE or RESOLVE?

Adobe CC, which is using the dynamic link and round-tripping features. It's really quite elegant and allows you to effortlessly link your work in multiple CC applications (various post-production workflows, like audio and effects and graphics and color correction and so on....). Very powerful connection between powerful programs..

What do you mean with PS, Photoshop? How do you use Photoshop with it?

Bunch of things you can do... Lets have a real simple example...
If you're just creating basic titles the built-in Premiere Title Tool can usually do the trick, but if you wanna leverage the tremendous power of Photoshop it couldn't be easier to go between Premiere and Photoshop in the title creation process.

In Ppro... File + New + PS file (it will sets up all of properties to match your sequence)

 

[jussi rovanpera]

I'm very interested in seeing how the new grading tools (and Tangent panel support) in Premiere work, once the next version comes out.

 

[jake blackstone]

I don't understand how it is even possible that no one had mentioned Resolve. It is FREE, it is a REAL color grading software used by the top professionals. It has excellent and very easy to use color science support- RCS, allowing you to work with every possible source- video, Log or Lin at the same time. It has one of the best trackers, including the new point tracker. Conforming is flawless. Yes, conforming, because there are always those times, when you may need to work with someone else's edit. It is not a cobbled together plugin or a ripped out code from another software. It is now a real editor, granted still not quite up to the Premiere, but it is quite useful for most editing and finishing work. Resolve can read and write EDL, XML, XMLX, AAF and OMF. It works with every third party panel, including the very inexpensive Ripple. And did I mention it's free? All updates are free. No internet connection needed to use it. And the best part, any Resolve project version will open with the current version. Yeah, don't try that with Adobe...

 

[Arturo Sánchez]

Thanks for the info!

Adobe CC, which is using the dynamic link and round-tripping features. It's really quite elegant and allows you to effortlessly link your work in multiple CC applications (various post-production workflows, like audio and effects and graphics and color correction and so on....). Very powerful connection between powerful programs..





Bunch of things you can do... Lets have a real simple example...
If you're just creating basic titles the built-in Premiere Title Tool can usually do the trick, but if you wanna leverage the tremendous power of Photoshop it couldn't be easier to go between Premiere and Photoshop in the title creation process.

In Ppro... File + New + PS file (it will sets up all of properties to match your sequence)

 

[Arturo Sánchez]

I agree with your point.
But I have a concern/question about working with R3D files in Resolve:
-If we properly set the camera raw settings for red, is the grading done after applied to the raw data or is it applied on top a non-raw version of the R3D?

I don't understand how it is even possible that no one had mentioned Resolve. It is FREE, it is a REAL color grading software used by the top professionals. It has excellent and very easy to use color science support- RCS, allowing you to work with every possible source- video, Log or Lin at the same time. It has one of the best trackers, including the new point tracker. Conforming is flawless. Yes, conforming, because there are always those times, when you may need to work with someone else's edit. It is not a cobbled together plugin or a ripped out code from another software. It is now a real editor, granted still not quite up to the Premiere, but it is quite useful for most editing and finishing work. Resolve can read and write EDL, XML, XMLX, AAF and OMF. It works with every third party panel, including the very inexpensive Ripple. And did I mention it's free? All updates are free. No internet connection needed to use it. And the best part, any Resolve project version will open with the current version. Yeah, don't try that with Adobe...

 

[jake blackstone]

I agree with your point.
But I have a concern/question about working with R3D files in Resolve:
-If we properly set the camera raw settings for red, is the grading done after applied to the raw data or is it applied on top a non-raw version of the R3D?

I don't understand the question, sorry...

 

[Arturo Sánchez]

:-/ oops sorry
Is the grading applied to the R3D files in Resolve modifying the raw data like RCX does or is it appliying these grades in a non-raw data?

I don't understand the question, sorry...

 

[jake blackstone]

:-/ oops sorry
Is the grading applied to the R3D files in Resolve modifying the raw information like RCX does?

They both use the same SDK, so why would it be any different?

 

[Arturo Sánchez]

Sorry for my lack of knowledge about this :-(

So, I know that all the adjustments made here are applied in the raw data:

But, are the rest of the grade applied directly to the raw data aswell, like for example these nodes?:

 

[Brian Merlen]

No, raw stuff can be manipulated and lives in the red file itself. Power windows and all the intricate stuff you can do with resolve will need to be exported. At least this is my understanding. As for why you would limit yourself to only manipulating raw files is it your DITing it? Generally the post guys want prores or mxf. But cameras can dual record on set now too. For editing you need to make a self contained file at the end by exporting. The edit programs are just pointers pointing to original media but once you cut it all up and change orders it's still just pointing. The export burns all the edits together if that makes sense?

one pet peeve I have as a DIT with resolve was audio dump was end if day typically and all my grades needed to be auto synced to it and the program had some limitations there in that the auto jam should happen prior to grading. I mostly used 11 so I'm somewhat behind the newest feature sets. Resolve is free just try it. Also in big post houses they never edit raw online til grading. They offline online the edits so they can use ten year old machines to make millions. The reluctance for round tripping or offline online can be overcame through learning the workflows. I too liked the one app idea for a while but now that I'm a professional editor I've realized how real world it can't work well. Does sound guy need 8k? How about your night shift assistants? Obviously not and the insistence they do and corresponding hardware is a fallacy and an expensive one at that.



ps wrote this on phone on train please ignore probable typos

 

[jake blackstone]

Sorry for my lack of knowledge about this :-(

So, I know that all the adjustments made here are applied in the raw data:


But, are the rest of the grade applied directly to the raw data aswell, like for example these nodes?:

That is the wrong place for metadata adjustments. You need to click on little camera sign for that.
Better yet, read the manual.

 

[Mike Halper]

:-/ oops sorry
Is the grading applied to the R3D files in Resolve modifying the raw data like RCX does or is it appliying these grades in a non-raw data?

By default, it's adjustments are done using the RAW data. When you render out you create new files in whatever codec you choose (that's supported on your system). The RAW R3D files are not modified themselves and you cannot render a RAW R3D file, but you can edit and grade with the RAW R3D files to take advantage of the RAW capabilities. If your system is unable to handle the RAW data very well you can set the debayer to a lower setting such as 1/2 good to 1/4 or whatever. You can also create optimized media to edit and grade with and/or take advantage of the render cache to speed things up as well. Then in the end you can render your final project using either the original RAW, or the optimized media, and/or the render cache. For example for rough cuts you could use the optimized media and render cache to get quicker outputs, but then for your final output render from the original media and force higher quality.

Other software might be better for pure editing, but with Resolve's color grading abilities it's tough to beat as an all-in-one edit/grade suite. I've been using Resolve to edit a couple projects and it's been really great being able to color correct as I progress to know where the cut really is and get a better feeling for the material. BMD can do some work on improving performance, so right now setting the render cache is important.