Nikon vs Canon - Birger Lens Mount

[Billy McCannon]

I own neither Nikon nor Canon lenses so I’m not compelled by previous investment or brand loyalty to opt for either. I had a slight bias toward Nikon which was the obvious choice before the Birger Lens Mount became a possible alternative, but now Canon seems to be a no-brainer.

The offer of a free remote control is focusing my mind on a decision.

The time lag between the release of the Canon and Nikon favours Canon as does the fact that Birger has experience with Canon.

The overwhelming factor in Canon’s favour is that Canon EF & EF-S mount will offer a much greater choice of lenses with electronic iris & focus control?

Nikon offers a full range of primes with manual focus but the AF-S range offers no prime lenses under 105mm, which limits that system to the use of zooms and teles.

Is there a case for Nikon?

 

[jaadgy akanni]

Nikon's a no-brainer for me

Nikon's a no-brainer for me

Nikon's AF-S zooms are great lenses, which I'll use as variable primes as well. I have on order, the new AF-S 14-24mm f/2.8 and AF-S 24-70mm f/2.8 full-frame lenses. I've already read some excellent reviews on the 24-70mm. Together with my AF-S 70-200mm f/2.8 these'll make a formidable team. I'll also get the (dumb) Nikon mount by RED for use with my manual Nikon primes. I'm partial to Nikon 'cause I prefer its aesthetics to that from canon glass. Canon glass is great too, but not to my liking. To each his own.

 

[albert rudnicki]

If you decide to go and use manual controls on the lens or Birger mount brakes( i know it will not; you may find your self in a very bad situation.
I've struggled a great deal with canon and 35mm adapter, for every time a wanted to change the aperture I had to remove it from my camera and put it on DSLR change the f stop then go back on the camera....

This is simply why I am going with Nikons; more options

Cheers

 

[Evin Grant]

Jaadgy, you can use your manual Nikon lenses on the Birger as well. It's the same mount. I'll probably buy both mounts.

 

[Billy McCannon]

Thanks guys.

Why get both mounts? Is it for back up or is there something the Red Nikon mount can do that the Birger Lens Mount can't do?

 

[Mark Crabtree]

More adapters

More adapters

There are many more adapters to let other lenses be mounted on EOS than on Nikon.

Adapters to EOS include Hasselblad, Leica, Nikon F, Contax just to name a few.

 

[Steve Murray]

Go Canon

Go Canon

I own neither Nikon nor Canon lenses so I’m not compelled by previous investment or brand loyalty to opt for either. I had a slight bias toward Nikon which was the obvious choice before the Birger Lens Mount became a possible alternative, but now Canon seems to be a no-brainer.

Is there a case for Nikon?

Having shot Nikon for 30 years and now shooting Canon for the last two I would go with the Birger Canon mount. There is no reason to go Nikon if you do not already own the lenses, none. Also the Nikon focus direction is backwards - a big deal for AC's who are used to the other direction.

With your RED # you will be shooting with Canon right away or you can wait for who knows how long waiting on a Nikon mount....

Both make very good lenses. But if you are used to Cine lens quality and consistency you will find that still lenses are not made as well and some are very sharp, some are not. Test your new purchases - either brand.

Nikon vs. Canon - who cares.... The image is all that matters in the end. The sooner you can start shooting the better. Go Canon. IMHO

 

[jaadgy akanni]

There is no reason to go Nikon if you do not already own the lenses, none. Also the Nikon focus direction is backwards - a big deal for AC's who are used to the other direction.
Nikon vs. Canon - who cares.... The image is all that matters in the end. The sooner you can start shooting the better. Go Canon. IMHO

However, know that with the Birger mount, focus direction doesn't matter 'cause it should work just like on a DSLR. Also, decent Follow Focuses(or is it "foci"?) are reversible.

Canon vs Nikon, who cares? I care because I've shot with both and have always preferred the Nikon look. Someone else may have the opposite opinion on this, so it's a matter of taste.
BTW, according to Jim, the RED Nikon mount should be released in January.

 

[Steve Murray]

Birger

Birger

However, know that with the Birger mount, focus direction doesn't matter 'cause it should work just like on a DSLR.

I'm confused.... You think being on a Birger mount - which we have not seen nor touched yet - is going to have a reversing method for focus for Nikon? Why? Did Eric say that somewhere? I looked at his posts but could not find anything about that, did I miss it? The Birger is not auto focus and the Nikon lenses all focus the other direction so how does this apply? If it works just like on a DSLR then it will be focusing backwards, yes? Am I missing something? Direction does matter to an AC who is used to going the other way.

Also, decent Follow Focuses(or is it "foci"?) are reversible.

I think it's a lot to assume that everyone has an expensive FF that will reverse direction, I do not and I think many RED folks will not have the budget for one of those.

Canon vs Nikon, who cares?[/B] I care because I've shot with both and have always preferred the Nikon look.

Seems to me that because the RED is digital and the images require post processing / color grading there is no way anyone will be able to tell what brand lens was used for any shot based on a "look". No way. The shots will either be sharp or not and that is about all that matters since all RED images will be DI (Digital Immediate) and once color graded only the final images will matter.

You can prefer & use whatever brand you want but that is not a reason to advise someone who is asking for advice on the best way to go with the Birger mount. Eric is about 5 months behind what he originally said he planned to do. I'm sure he is going the best he can but as we know all too well "things change" in the world of RED. The Birger Canon mount will be available much sooner. It is not about Canon / Nikon -- it's about being able to shoot images sooner -- time is money.

BTW, according to Jim, the RED Nikon mount should be released in January.

That will be great for all the Nikon folks.... but since things change a lot as RED is being developed I would not count on the RED Nikon mount until they are actually shipping -- just as Jim has always advised about this process.

 

[Bill Goehring]

I'm confused.... You think being on a Birger mount - which we have not seen nor touched yet - is going to have a reversing method for focus for Nikon? Why? Did Eric say that somewhere? I looked at his posts but could not find anything about that, did I miss it? The Birger is not auto focus and the Nikon lenses all focus the other direction so how does this apply? If it works just like on a DSLR then it will be focusing backwards, yes? Am I missing something? Direction does matter to an AC who is used to going the other way.

Excuse me, Jaadgy, mind if I cut in on this dance?

I think the difference here is that traditional follow focus units rely on a mechanical linkage: gears on the FF mesh with gears on the surface of the lens.

Yes, Nikkor optics--DSLR or not--may very well rely on focusing the lens barrel in the reverse direction to cinema and Canon lenses.

But the Birger Mount relies on an ELECTRONIC interface, so I think it may be a trivial difference to drive the internal gearing with the electronics one way or the other by merely reversing the polarity with which the internal lens motor drives the gearing.

 

[Evin Grant]

Thanks guys.

Why get both mounts? Is it for back up or is there something the Red Nikon mount can do that the Birger Lens Mount can't do?

Sorry, I meant both Nikon and Canon Birgers.

I own quite a bit of Nikon glass, AFS and MF so that's one reason, but there may be some client's that own EOS and that option is profitable too.

Personally I prefer Nikon glass, it's just my preference.

 

[Joel Kaye]

I'm confused.... You think being on a Birger mount - which we have not seen nor touched yet - is going to have a reversing method for focus for Nikon? Why? Did Eric say that somewhere?

I'm pretty sure it's been mentioned but even if not the Birger is an electronic control. Reversing directions should be very easy and I'd be totally stunned if he didn't do it.

Even though I've got Nikon lenses I'm getting the Canon Birger because odds are it will work better, sooner and my camera is coming sooner. Plus some Canon's have image stabilization that may translate better to RED than Nikon's based on some things I've read. That's a wildcard though...

 

[Steve Murray]

But the Birger Mount relies on an ELECTRONIC interface, so I think it may be a trivial difference to drive the internal gearing with the electronics one way or the other by merely reversing the polarity with which the internal lens motor drives the gearing.

I understand how it could work now, thanks Bill.

 

[Bill Goehring]

I understand how it could work now, thanks Bill.

Sure thing.

 

[Mike Zinner]

I remember a post by Erik from Birger stating that the Nikon mount will offer better iris control because their Nikon mechanics will have more steps. Here it is:

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?p=89417#post89417

 

[jaadgy akanni]

I remember a post by Erik from Birger stating that the Nikon mount will offer better iris control because their Nikon mechanics will have more steps. Here it is:

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?p=89417#post89417

Nice retrospect;I'd forgotten about that one. Here's part of what Eric said:
Canon lens irises are limited to 1/4 stop per step... mathematically it is really 1/3 stop per step, but there a four steps per stop - wrap your brain around that! Nikon lenses are only limited by the resolution of our mechanism, which will probably be better than that in the Canon lenses.

Some of the really inexpensive Nikon lenses have a direct encoder on the focus mechanism (after the gear train) so these may offer better performance than the equally inexpensive Canon lenses. But I think this last distinction is meaningless, as one is not going to spend $17K on a camera and $1K on a lens mount to use a $99 lens

Thanks Mike.

 

[Joel Kaye]

Some of the really inexpensive Nikon lenses have a direct encoder on the focus mechanism (after the gear train) so these may offer better performance than the equally inexpensive Canon lenses. But I think this last distinction is meaningless, as one is not going to spend $17K on a camera and $1K on a lens mount to use a $99 lens

Actually the $99 Nikon 50mm 1.8 rates as a very sharp lens from the reviews I've read. This does mean rolling the iris during a shot should be smoother with the Nikons.

I'm A LOT more worried about smooth accurate focus. And odds are you could smooth out the Canon 1/3 iris increments in post if they are noticable.

 

[Eddie]

After fumbling around with an old AI-S nikon lens all day trying to get accurate focus, I am now shure, that I will go for the birger canon mount and a supergrip. Maybe you can get away with using nikon primes on a tripod with ff and gearings but for anything handheld things are gonna fall apart. Critical focus is at the heart of 4K, and the focus throw of the AI-S lenses is way too short at the long end. The 35mm f/2 has about 2cm clockwise to play with from 1m-infinity! Also it is a bit sloppy when you are racking back and forth.
Secondly I believe that the canon mount will (unofficially) support foccusing with sigma primes and tokina zooms (for canon) which open up some nice bang for the buck options. (please correct me if I´m wrong on this) A set of atx pro zooms from tokina would do the trick for me for now (apart from a little CA they have an outstanding performance and a nice build based on angenieux patents) leaving plenty of cash for some more exotic lens choices along the way.
all the best Eddie

 

[Siva Kollipara]

IS/VR works for Video..?

IS/VR works for Video..?

Plus some Canon's have image stabilization that may translate better to RED than Nikon's based on some things I've read.

How far this IS/VR works for motion pictures, They may be best for Still photography, Has any one tested them for HD or RED?

If IS/VR has no value, we can save good money without any loss in quality optics.

 

[chuck colburn]

And remember no matter what lens you are using to always go wide open and stop down to your chosen stop. But you guys know that. lol