Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

Log in
  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

nikon d90 slr records HD video.

laguun said:
the rolling readout however is critical for many shots..
Click to expand...
what BS you're talking about now jan?.. this is the same camera you'll see on the screen.. at the big screen.. yeah.. at the most important film festivals near you too.. understood?

do not give us stupid geek points such as this one.. every truth in art is fake.. wth have you been smoking?



Jacques Henri Lartigue.. 1913 car trip papa at 80 kilometers an hour
 
I wouldn't be surprised to see red come up with a similar product to this (but way better) after scarlet.
Aloha
-A
 
me stands corrected.. it's Jacques-Henri Lartigue..
 
Look at it this way: It's around the same price as a small AVCHD camcorder. I own a Sony SR11. It's full HD but with nasty compression, hardly any manual controls. The image quality is ok but really only for test stuff, making ofs, or private p*rn... Not to mention the mediocre still mode.

Now take the D90: No doubts about the stills quality. And those videos kick my Sony's ass. Sadly.

Not a great movie cam, but what you get for 1k$ is still awesome in comparison!
 
I believe the problem with the current implementation of the D90 is the Exmor image processor its mated to. Its a evolution of a year-old design that wasn't originally meant to handle video. This is the likely reason it can't handle any compression other then mjpeg and it doesn't have the speed or buffer to handle any higher resolutions. Downstream from the sensor I'm assuming there is little being done to video in reducing its shortcomings in quality. Supposedly, you can still shoot off 12MP stills while recording in 720p, but Nikon obviously doesn't have a RAW video format at the moment, and even if it did the image processor may not be able to handle it. I assume Nikon could easily make a video version of the NEF RAW that is already being used in the D90, and I suspect they'll have it in some future iteration once these image processors are designed from the ground up to handle both still photography and video.


laguun said:
Nice DOF and sensitivity, ok resolution, the rolling readout however is critical for many shots.

great addition, good price.

I personally expect the markets of still/moving cameras to mostly converge rather sooner (~5-7 years) than later (8~12 years).

I expect that the japanese companies will probably overtake most filmmaking and the price will probably be in the $$$$ range.

Another camera which should be mentioned here is the Casio Exilim pro EX-F1.

http://www.exilim.com/intl/ex_f1/
Full 1920*1080 resolution, 60i max.
Up to 1200P in lower resolutions.
6MP (or 2.8K in reds methodology) sensor.
Quicktime H264 mov recording.
HDMI out
F2.7-4.6,
f=7.3 to 87.6mm (35mm film equivalent : 36-432mm)
1/1.8 inch sensor.

Casio and Nikon dont have product conflicts.
Also one shouldnt underestimate Nokia - they can come through a backdoor.
Click to expand...

The Casio EX-F1 and Nikon D90 both have something in common. They are both using sensor and image processors design and built by Sony in their Fab2 plant in Kyushu. Technically speaking speaking they have more in common, they are the new generation of Sony's Column-Parallel A/D Conversion CMOs sensors, where each column in the sensor has its own A/D converter, the idea is to reduce noise and increase speed of the sensor. This has been demonstrated in the IMX017CQE sensor in the Casio EX-F1 that can do up to 1200 fps. The D90 uses the Sony's IMX021 sensor, which is an APS-C sized sensor and we've seen demonstrated in the D90. Sony have also shown their 24.8 megapixel full-frame sensor that uses the same technology, we should see the Alpha-900 with that sensor next month in Photokina, it's still a question if it'll have HD-movie or not. However, Sony does plan on making these CMOS sensors a convergent component. Clearly, the form-factor may change, and at first we may see dSLR that can take movies and camcorders that can take quality stills, but ultimately it'll be a fungibility of these sensors between devices that will become important for sensor manufactures. Last year, the IMX021 sensor that is now used in the D90 was selling for $350 for the sample price, obviously the sample price is multiple times more expensive then the final price in bulk, but you can assume the sensor and the Exmor/Bionz image processor that Sony also sells is relatively affordable to third-parties. I would be surprised if the D90 wasn't just the tip of the iceberg of things to come from a myriad of manufactures with CMOS expertise.
 
This only makes sense. We all knew it was coming. I'm surprised it has taken this long.

Very good news.

I will be more excited once the resolution reaches 1920x1280. This will be incredibly useful for shooting stock footage in the mountains, shooting documentaries, music videos, etc. Well, really, for everything!

I hope Canon gets onboard fast and that they allow variable framerates in the "movie" mode.
 
I have ordered a D90. This is the perfect Pocket HD video/DSLR camera for me.
 
One Advantage

One Advantage

One advantage any camera from Nikon, Canon etc would have over Red would be local servicing as all these guys have an established network. We had a lens fixed by Canon last week in 24Hrs!

As stated this is the first step but Canon in particular will not be far behind and Sony & Panasonic are bound to follow thereafter. The exciting thing about it is no one company will capture the market exclusively.
 
Hey Castle, that's very interesting info you have... post more please!

Looking at the DPreview samples (thanks Shiny), it seems to have some problems:

- weird flickering color moire on the high-frequency clipped highlights on the upper right side of the pool (DSC_0165.AVI)
- scaling algorithm used (or is it just binning?) gives the high frequency detail around the penguin's eye a weird look (DSC_0043.AVI)

I'm excluding the exposure changes of course, because you can lock that.

Anyway, sadly it looks like I can't sell my HV20 + 35mm adapter combo yet!

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com
 
Bruce Allen said:
Hey Castle, that's very interesting info you have... post more please!

Looking at the DPreview samples (thanks Shiny), it seems to have some problems:

- weird flickering color moire on the high-frequency clipped highlights on the upper right side of the pool (DSC_0165.AVI)
- scaling algorithm used (or is it just binning?) gives the high frequency detail around the penguin's eye a weird look (DSC_0043.AVI)

I'm excluding the exposure changes of course, because you can lock that.

Anyway, sadly it looks like I can't sell my HV20 + 35mm adapter combo yet!

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com
Click to expand...

heheheh Same here Bruce. I was already planning on putting my HD200u + Brevis35 up for sale, but I guess, not yet.
 
I don't see Canon coming out with a DSLR/video combo camera just yet.
Canon has such a strong line of camcorders that I just don't see them
competing with themselves unless the concept of a D90 really takes off.
I was looking at a D300 but for what I do a D90 is fine and now I will probably
take more video on my trips. I stopped bringing a video camera along years ago
as I just would not do anything with the hours of tape I shot. Now having a DSLR
that I would take anyway that can shoot acceptable video on a card is perfect.
I see Nikon taking the concept further if the D90 becomes a best seller.
 
I have ordered a D90. This is the perfect Pocket HD video/DSLR camera for me.
Comparing this tiny sleek beautiful camera to RED is like comparing an iphone to a desktop PC.
I am sure this product will take off like iphone.
can you imagine taking a humongous RED on your vaction and fiddle around with post, when you can take this pocket camera and take all videos you want with 35 mm DOF and connect it to a new TV and watch it without any post headaches?
In addition to the convenience, compare the price: $1200 with everything vs $50,000?
wow!
By Christmas time, Canon will have a similar camera with better specs and lower price.
 
Convergence of stills and video is inexorable.

The D90 is just the first example with more undoubtedly to follow with higher resolution and more motion picture camera features. These cameras promise to be outstanding considering the software expertise that Nikon, Canon, and others can apply to massive production capability and global markets.

On the other side of the coin, we can expect small sensor motion picture cameras to benefit from higher still image quality.

Choose your form factor and sensor size.

I rather doubt Nikon & Canon will challenge Red in the professional cinema arena; the market is probably too small to interest them. Of course, I could be wrong. If they see profit potential in 35MM PL glass, they might just configure a camera for our needs to complete the product line.

Exciting times!

Good shooting and best regards,

Leo
 
Leo Ticheli said:
I rather doubt Nikon & Canon will challenge Red in the professional cinema arena; the market is probably too small to interest them.
Leo
Click to expand...

Does anybody remember Kodak DCS 14n from Photokina in September 2002. That 14 megapixel, full frame sensor camera was a show stopper with $5000 price tag. (CMOS sensor was made by Tower Semiconductor in Israel. Body was of Nikon F80. Electronics were made by Kodak Professional. Lenses were from Nikon.)

With all its manufacturing might and technical knowhow and deep pockets and world wide distribution, Kodak could not compete with Canon. (Canon EOS1Ds with 11 megapiuxel, full frame sensor was priced at $8000).

The lesson is this: Larger megapixel or lower price cannot guarantee success.

Nikon / Canon lenses can challenge PL mount lenses. Once Nikon or Canon enter the field with a 35mm, fullframe sensor, lower priced video capable camera, the current crop of 2K, 3k, 4K and 6K cameras will go the way Kodak DCS 14n went.

As Leo said, interesting times are ahead.
 
Leo Ticheli said:
Convergence of stills and video is inexorable.
Click to expand...

Yep.

I rather doubt Nikon & Canon will challenge Red in the professional cinema arena; the market is probably too small to interest them. Of course, I could be wrong. If they see profit potential in 35MM PL glass, they might just configure a camera for our needs to complete the product line.
Click to expand...

I don't see Nikon or Canon jumping into the ring with PL mount glass. But I do see them releasing new series of lenses that are adapted to their motion picture offerings. We'll see future Nikon and Canon lenses designed to minimize breathing and serve more appropriately for motion picture use. Although, I do see their camera and lens offerings catering more to the consumer and prosumer crowd. Eventually autofocus, auto exposure, auto-everything will be the name of the game in the 35mm still+motion camera world.

Jim recently mentioned that RED is planning a camera for the DSLR market. It makes sense and I think RED is already two steps ahead of the competition, or at least as far as far as capturing high-res moving images goes.
 
Jeff Kilgroe said:
But I do see them releasing new series of lenses that are adapted to their motion picture offerings. We'll see future Nikon and Canon lenses designed to minimize breathing and serve more appropriately for motion picture use.
Click to expand...

That's my bet, but I have to add that I've been shooting a variety of Nikons on RED in real world narrative situations and I don't think I (or anyone else) have noticed breathing as I've been riding the focus constantly by eye because there just isn't that much to notice. The consistent reaction is the same "looks like a real movie". The glass is close now.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top