Next move with the Briger EF-mount

[Lauri Kettunen]

This new thread is an attempt to solve the remaining issues with installing the Birger mount. So, before anybody replies, I kindly request, please, please, stay cool and focus on solving problems instead of echoing your emotions or blaming anybody.

It has been posted that the camera warranty remains, if Birger installs the mount to the camera body. We all know this has left the existing and forthcoming camera owners, and I'm afraid, also Erik into darkness. However, also RED may have its own reasons for holding back. Who knows, perhaps the reason is Canon? Still, speculation does not help in making progress, so better to give up of it.

Now, to bring light into this twilight zone and to solve the remaining issues, we needed

1. to know the technical risks, if we install the Birger mount ourselves,

a) is the i\cable a real problem? If so, what about if one cuts the cable, one wire at time and insulates the ends properly with shrinking wrap? Still, find it bit difficult to believe in the i\cable-issue, for the same risk is already very high when installing the Nikon mount.

b) Is the electric connection between the Birger mount and the Red One Aux power connector a possible difficulty? There seems to be something odd with design of the power boards of the camera. The booting problems have something to do with the number of equipments draining power from the camera, the phantom power of the mic inputs may cause problems. Now we learned that the RS232 port may blow up internally the camera. Be aware, it's not immediately clear that a short current spike should blow up a board inside the camera. Although the power during a spike is high, still the total work (power x time) is low. (For the very same reason you don't get completely grilled when there's an electric discharge between your car keys and the car body.)

2. Now, point b suggests, what about if the Birger mount were driven by an external battery? That's a simple solution to avoid the elctric connection between the mount and the camera body.

3. We also needed an official confirmation from RED that the warranty still covered anything else that had nothing to do with the mount installation.

If you have good suggestions how to make progress, please share your thoughts.It would also be highly appreciated if Jarred, Stuart or Jim could tell if there is or isn't anything new to say on which limits we could install the Birger mount.

 

[Andrew M.]

I see the second post about idea of powering the Birger mount from the external battery.
NOT NEEDED.
AUX power at the back of RED is more than safe.
It takes power straight from the Power Board and you can short it and power board will shut down the whole camera, didn't try it myself but I have seen RED shutting itself down on phantom power short and not doing any damage to the audio board.
You can short AUX power ports many times and from my experience you will blew up the power supply or the fuse or the fusible factory replaceable link one day, but you have good chances that if short happens to you once a year you will never get in to the trouble.

So forget about external batteries for Birger mount, AUX power is rock solid power source for lenses.
It was designed for it.


As to the cutting of i/ cable, you don't have to do it one at a time if camera is turned off for some 10 minutes or so. Just cut this thing off, if it makes you nervous and make sure that you protect both ends of the cut off wires against shorting to each other.

Also remember, using any shirk wrap tubes that produce vapour it will contaminate sensor chamber.
Some polyethylene tubing has ugly habit to spread the thin emulsif layer around and you end up cleaning the CMOS very often. Once it gets under the OLPF you are in trouble.
RED have to come up with the procedure and materials.
I didn't see Birger mount from close yet and I hope the components in it are completely sealed from the sensor chamber and only metal is facing inside to it. Though properly soldered PCB board and vapour cleaned is not a big source of contamination anyway. What is important though that there are no holes letting dust to pass in to the CMOS compartment.

 

[Michael Hastings]

Andrew:

The Birger 10 pin lemo beta test triad - Me, Erik, and Lonny have suspected that it was drawing on the RS232 power circuit rather than pinching the i/cable that caused the problem. But obviously, RED has concerns about the i/cable, and there is even some question (see ldill's post) of whether the i/data cable was pinched during factory installation of the PL.

There is no way for me to tell since mine was one of the fused screws PLs and it required dismantling the PL by totally removing the PL adjustment lockdown screws, expanding the ring and monkeying with the mechanism to get it off.

Is there are type of shrink (pvc) or epoxy or something that we could put on the ends, that wouldn't vaporize?

The battery option doesn't seem necessary, but it is in the argument arsenal if in fact the real fear at RED is inadequate power protection in their circuits.

The key thing is that RED says they can tell when you remove the pl. So it is essential that we get RED to back off of the removing the whole pl voids the warranty.

The sensor chamber remains sealed, the part you see when you remove the whole pl is the OLPF. Birger doesn't make any change as far as the sensor is concerned.

 

[M Hsu]

Another interesting question would be: Will RED consider offering an extended warranty along the lines of apple care? Perhaps a higher priced one that would cover 3rd party mounts or user mods? This is not unlike that $200 insurance idea someone else raised. Remember your warranty is only a year and for many people waiting for the birger mount to ship, considerably less than that.

 

[Lauri Kettunen]

So forget about external batteries for Birger mount, AUX power is rock solid power source for lenses.

Andrew, how familiar you are with electronic design? There's awfully many questions related to this kind of design. One of them is grounding. I assume the body of the Birger mount as well as the camera body is grounded. Thus, once a cable from the mount to the aux port is connected a rather big galvanic loop is formed. Now, any change in the magnetic field across this loop will induce currents implying the ground level potential varies in different parts of the camera. Not a wellcome situation and probably something which has not been taken into account at all when designing the camera.

What comes to the i/cable, the Red Nikon mount has hardly any space for the cable. It's amazing if anybody has not damaged the cable while installing the mount.

In general, all what Mike has said during the last couple days makes a lot of sense. I also feel Jarred should stop talking about Birger as a 3rd party accessory and escaping the situation. It creates an impression as if Red considered we were foolish.

 

[Lauri Kettunen]

It seems emotions are now taking over reasonable thinking on both sides. One last attempt; Jim has always emphasized to count on Red that it will try to solve problems. He has also emphasized, for instance, when Cineform took a shortcut with its raw2avi software, how important and vital it is to stuck on good business practices. So, Jarred, why is it so difficult to recognize that the announcement of the Birger EF-mount around Nab 2007 let us understood it's not just going to be a 3rd party accesory that will void warranty? This announcement had a major effect on many of us. For instance, I sent immediately an email to Rob saying that the whole concept is hereinafter a completely different story in my eyes.

So, may I ask everybody, including Jarred, to come down and seek for a creative solution.