Newbie needs help...

[Alex Redding]

I have just finished shooting my first project on the red and my intentions are to have a 1080p HDCAM tape output. I am at the initial post stage at the moment and a bit lost.

(Red camera 4k footage, build 16, FCP studio 2, Macbook Pro 2.4ghz 4gb ram, about 2 hours of content. 1 hour of Red and 1 hour of Z1...footage to be intermixed. Firewire 800)

Here are my questions:
1. What program should I use? Redcine, Red Alert, or Red Rushes to make Prores versions of all of the shots? And should I do a one-light now on all of the outputs or wait til it all gets to Color?
I have been trying to use Redcine but it keeps giving me a freeze frame on the output so I changed to Redrushes even though I can't do color work.

2. I will be mixing the Red footage with Z1 footage (in the style of Be Kind Rewind). Should I downgrade all of my footage to 1920x1080 to match the Z1 to avoid render problems in Final Cut?

3. A bit lost in the prores codec mind-field. For a 1080p final output, what is biggest downgrade I can go without losing detail? (trying to keep render times down on my macbook pro)
I am thinking Prores HQ at half-high quality.
Prores HQ at half-standard quality seems sharper but is that because of aisling? Is aisling going to be a problem for me?
Would Prores HQ at half-standard or high quality be better than Prores SQ at full quality?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Alex Redding]

I forgot to mention that my aspect ratio will be 2:35. Should I do the letterboxing now or after the edit?

 

[Uli Plank]

The workflow decision should be based on the shooting ratio and the amount of effects you want to apply during a rough cut. You have three reasonable options in your case:

- Offline editing with QT 'proxies' (actually references)
Pro: fast / Con: rendering needed for each and any effect, conforming needed (get Crimson)

- Offline editing with low-quality proxies (ProRes or DVCProHD) with quick decode (quarter-res).
Pro: reasonably fast, many effects are realtime / Con: conforming needed (get Crimson)

- Online editing with ProRes half high. I wouldn't go half standard, it can give you aliasing as you supposed. Even use full for critical stuff, like low-light or very fine detail
Pro: full quality during editing, no conforming needed / Con: long rendering times before you can start

Of course you can and should do a first-light with REDAlert, the grades will carry over to REDrushes by the RSX files generated. Since ProRes is only 10 bit, you should correct any major flaws in exposure and color balance at this stage.
I'd scale to 1920 horizontal when you generate online footage, since a second scaling in FCP would make your image softer. I'd do any letterboxing in FCP, since you can animate the vertical position there if needed. Convert all HDV footage to ProRes on ingest, it's easier to work with. And use ProRes HQ if you can afford the storage.

Plus: have fun!

 

[Hans-Georg Daun]

If you choose to go the online route, have a look at Clipfinder. It'll help with selecting shots and make interaction with REDAlert easier. It will use the same render engine (REDline) as REDRushes but is slightly more user friendly when setting up render jobs.

Cheers,
Hans

 

[Uli Plank]

Hi Hans,

I'll take a closer look at Clipfinder, thank you!

 

[Hans-Georg Daun]

Uli,

Let me know if you find any problems with it or wish to suggest additional features. I'd very much appreciate your feedback.

Thanks,
Hans

 

[Alex Redding]

The workflow decision should be based on the shooting ratio and the amount of effects you want to apply during a rough cut. You have three reasonable options in your case:

- Offline editing with QT 'proxies' (actually references)
Pro: fast / Con: rendering needed for each and any effect, conforming needed (get Crimson)

- Offline editing with low-quality proxies (ProRes or DVCProHD) with quick decode (quarter-res).
Pro: reasonably fast, many effects are realtime / Con: conforming needed (get Crimson)

- Online editing with ProRes half high. I wouldn't go half standard, it can give you aliasing as you supposed. Even use full for critical stuff, like low-light or very fine detail
Pro: full quality during editing, no conforming needed / Con: long rendering times before you can start

Of course you can and should do a first-light with REDAlert, the grades will carry over to REDrushes by the RSX files generated. Since ProRes is only 10 bit, you should correct any major flaws in exposure and color balance at this stage.
I'd scale to 1920 horizontal when you generate online footage, since a second scaling in FCP would make your image softer. I'd do any letterboxing in FCP, since you can animate the vertical position there if needed. Convert all HDV footage to ProRes on ingest, it's easier to work with. And use ProRes HQ if you can afford the storage.

Plus: have fun!

Thank you so much nomad for the clarifications. I will probably go the full online route (at prores hq half high) to make things easier for me to avoid offlining. I didn't know that FCP would scale the footage again upon import if it wasn't 1920 horizontal.

Does Red cine also generate RSX files that will transfer to Redrushes? I find Redcines color correction tool a bit easier to work with than Red Alert.

Do you not think I will run into rendering problems with mixing footage from two different cameras with different resolutions (Red at 4K Prores and Z1 at HDV)?

 

[Alex Redding]

If you choose to go the online route, have a look at Clipfinder. It'll help with selecting shots and make interaction with REDAlert easier. It will use the same render engine (REDline) as REDRushes but is slightly more user friendly when setting up render jobs.

Cheers,
Hans

Thank you Hans. Clipfinder seems like a great utility.

 

[Uli Plank]

I didn't know that FCP would scale the footage again upon import if it wasn't 1920 horizontal.

Only if you set the timeline to 1920, but that's what's needed for HD. OTOH you can keep the Red footage at 2K and 100% if you crop the sides. Or did you shoot in the new 4K HD format?

Does Red cine also generate RSX files that will transfer to Redrushes? I find Redcines color correction tool a bit easier to work with than Red Alert.

Unfortunately not, only RA does RSX. Red is still working on a unified format for grading information.

Do you not think I will run into rendering problems with mixing footage from two different cameras with different resolutions (Red at 4K Prores and Z1 at HDV)?

You can't use 4K in FCP. Why would you want that, if your final format is HD? FCP can handle different resolutions, but not more than 2K.

Regards,

Uli