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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

New Zeiss Compact Primes Revised

Tom.Wong said:
http://www.amazon.com/Canon-Ultra-Wide-Angle-Digital-Cameras/dp/B000V5P94Q

if something like this can be faster than the Zeiss 18 mm, I just don't get how they couldn't at least make their 18 mm a 2.8

3.6 is just really slow.
Click to expand...


Tom:

The compact primes are basically the original Contax Yashica full frame lens designs from the 80s/90s. They are cheaper than UPs and MPs because they didn't require much new optical development.

You can get the original lens .pdf file with the features, optical design MTF and performance data here:

http://www.zeiss.com/C12567A8003B8B6F/EmbedTitelIntern/Distagon4_18mm_e/$File/Distagon4_18mm_e.pdf

The wider you go the bigger the front element has to be to keep the same maximum F rating. Same with coverage, the larger the format - in this case they were designed for Full frame - the bigger the element. So there is always a tradeoff and obviously at the time they went for smaller size and weight rather than faster than say the canon 14mm 2.8

The master prime 14 can be T1.3 (probably f1.2) because of both factors - bigger front element and smaller S35 format coverage.
 
alright thanks, i'm getting a better understanding of how optics works S35 compared to FF, it's simply easier to make faster lenses in general for S35 lenses cause the sensor only covers so much of the lens.

and that answers questions i've been asking about medium format and large format lenses too.
 
Tom.Wong said:
alright thanks, i'm getting a better understanding of how optics works S35 compared to FF, it's simply easier to make faster lenses in general for S35 lenses cause the sensor only covers so much of the lens.

and that answers questions i've been asking about medium format and large format lenses too.
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Yep, BTW part of the reason a bunch of us were pushing for a 4/3" rather than 2/3" Scarlet is because it would be a bit more depth of field than S35, and shallower than 2/3" so a nice compromise - but it also allows use of inexpensive F2.0 still camera zooms vs. the normal best F2.8 zooms on S35/APS-c and full frame. Of course you can do faster zooms and greater ranges, but the optics get huge and that's how you get those massive Cooke and Angenieux Zooms that you see on S35 cine cameras.

It is also because of the small size of 2/3" that you see common 18x ENG zooms that open up to F1.7
 
schneider is releasing a nice set of primes, not FF.
set of 5 (25mm t2.2, 35mm t2.1, 50mm t2.0, 75mm t2.0, 95mm t2.0) should be around 21k
and there's an 18mm t1.9 coming out a bit later.
saw them today at abel cine booth. also allow canon/nikon mount.
 

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2.1 is fine.. but once you start getting weird with your set.. and throwing a 2.9 or 3+ into the mix on a prime.. it gets stupid.

Im not going to light for a 2.1 and then throw my 18 up and then strike a 2k lens with 250.. too much work.. give me a solid lens with the same app.
 
The one thing that surprised me was that the cp's are a lot lighter that the other $20k lens sets, heavier than the zf versions but probably 3-4lbs lighter than the schneider's, rpp's or uniqoptics. If this matters to you.
The schneider's looked pretty nice although I was only able to look at the 75mm but should be able to check them out properly in the next few weeks.
 
An 18mm is an 18mm. Its magnification is defined by the focal length. That means it will look identical in FOV to any other 18mm when mounted on a S35 camera. But the CP.2 can project to a much larger image area, so on that larger sensor you will see a wider FOV.

You might want to look at the recent video I posted to our company blog, Cine Technica. I try to cover this concept in the beginning.

http://blog.abelcine.com/2010/05/14/a-lens-is-a-lens-is-a-lens/
 
Yes, they are just starting to trickle out.
 
Mitch,I'm traying to Dawnload the video you mentioned buy Haven't they designed to be 18 mm on FF so in order to have the same FOV on smaller sensor you have to change the focal length otherwise you will ended with changing in FOV as the sensor saze changed please correct me if i'm rung
 
The lens is physically designed to project an image that covers a Full Frame sensor. That it is an 18mm or not is not the question. What FOV an 18mm projects on a Full Frame sensor is different than what is projected on a sensor that is smaller, because the lens does not know what is behind it. Think of it this way: start out with a physically very small sensor, such as a Super-16mm film one. When viewed through this small window, an 18mm lens designed to cover this sensor will look IDENTICAL to an 18mm designed to cover Super-35 and IDENTICAL to an 18mm designed to cover Full Frame 35. Now take these same three lenses and put them in front of the Full Frame sensor. The 18mm designed for the FF sensor will have the same MAGNIFICATION as the other two, but they will not successfully cover the entire sensor so the image will go dark in the corners. This is what I tried to show in the beginning of the video.

To get the same FOV with two different size sensors, one must either change their distance from the subject or change the focal length of the lens. But these have other consequences. This is what I tried to show in the rest of the video.

Hope this helps.
 
Simply make a photo with Canon 5D FF35mm or any other FF35mm cam like a expensive Leica M9 or competing cheaper Canon 5D or Nikon D3xxx DSLR cameras.

Then later crop al that pictures in a different sizes like a S35mm (cine 3 perf or 4 perf film) or Canon or Nikon APS-C sizes,...others too, then 4/3 " 2/3 ", 1/3", etc...

different inch sensor sizes to get an idea what is going on there.

Actually FOV is not changed at all only is about a different sensor frame size.
 
Sanjin Jukic said:
Hope they are much better optically than Zeiss/Cosina ZF, ZM, ZE,...series...

I already have been owed one Zeiss 50mm Planar f/1.4 ZF two years ago on my R1 but after compared with a great performance of Leica Summilux R 50mm f/1.4 I sold it.

Also a couple weeks ago I tried out one secondhand Zeiss 18mm Distagon f/4 ZM (for Zeiss/Ikon and Leica M) and was disappointed with unsharpness and lot of CA at wide open.
Click to expand...

Very insightful info Sanjin that leica lens looks great saw some stuff on youtube.
 
To get the same FOV with two different size sensors, one must either change their distance from the subject or change the focal length of the lens. But these have other consequences. This is what I tried to show in the rest of the video.

Changing the distance means changing magnification cause magnification of a lens is related to it's distance from the subject , for example the canon 180 mm macro lens give you 1:1 magnification in a distance of .43 meter if I'm not rung so we end up with same concept ''18 mm for FF not for s35'' that's my confusing point of compact primes.
Is there any one can test the field of view of a CP2 on red with RPP 18 mm?
like to know if they have the same magnification at different Distance from subject ?:rolleyes:
 
Don't know why this is so confusing.

At the same distance from the subject and using the same cameras at the same resolution format, the RED Pro Prime 18mm will give the same field of view as the Compact Prime 18mm.

Does this answer your question?
 
Just glad I was finally able to answer your question. You have no idea how muh confusion there is out there over these concepts.
 
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