New Zeiss Compact Primes preview...

[Curran Giddens]

Thanks Georg!

well written and very informative.

 

[Sanjin Jukic]

Thanks Georg for your explanation about German made lenses...

BTW, I did one more "quick & dirty" short footage test to show how 50 years old Carl Zeiss lens is still making a beautiful images today on RED1.

Shot with legendary Carl Zeiss Jena Olympia Sonnar 180mm (Nikon F mount) on RED1.

Legendary Carl Zeiss Jena Olympia Sonnar 180mm (Nikon F mount).

Download "quick & dirty" test footage shot with legendary Carl Zeiss Jena Olympia Sonnar 180mm (Nikon F mount) on RED1>>>

Thanx Sanjin... What's the highest resolution you can get from each, what format are they? If you had to choose "M" or "R" which would you choose or is there any difference besides the mount? I love Leica lenses, they have such character....

Jamon,

if I understood your question well then Leica-R and Leica-M are both FF35 that means can deliver very high resolution within that film or sensor size frame (36mmx24mm).

 

[Mike Prevette]

"don't feed the troll"

Back on topic please.

 

[Evin Grant]

Of course Japan is now turning to China and Thailand because even their own labor pool is too expensive to compete.

 

[chuck colburn]

Have you ever seen the older test with Noctilux f/1.0 Made in Canada

LINK>>>

There was also an 85 and 55m f1.2 made by Zeiss in Germany for the Contax mount. Somewhat rare and pricy but alot cheaper then "Speed" cine lenses.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Contax-85mm-1-2...205|66:2|65:12|39:1|240:1318|301:1|293:1|294%

http://cgi.ebay.com/CONTAX-Planar-5...205|66:2|65:12|39:1|240:1318|301:1|293:1|294:

 

[David Mullen ASC]

Why can't someone grab all the best lenses and put them in Cine barrels?

Has Leica ever put out cine lenses?

Panavision Primo lenses are made from Leica glass.

Conversion of still lenses to cinema lenses is expensive per unit -- it's not the same thing as changing the mount out. There have been companies like Optex and Century Precision Optics that have been converting still camera lenses for years, but usually I just hear about Canons, sometimes Nikons, being converted for some reason. Maybe because Zeiss already makes cinema lenses.

 

[David Mullen ASC]

I have shot quite a bit, certainly nowhere as much as you, but I've never reached for a calculator.

Maybe you should... I keep one next to the computer. The conversions are very simple IF you have the specs, but as I said, it requires knowing the recorded areas of the sensors, not the sensor size itself. But since most prime lens sets come in jumps of focal lengths, rough calculations are usually good enough, that and experience -- i.e. it depends on what you are most used to shooting. If you shoot 35mm cine all the time, you know what an 18mm looks and feels like, so you can imagine getting the same look with a 27mm lens on a FF35 camera.

Yes, when planning a feature, it's always hard to know if you need a certain super wide-angle or telephoto. I put them on my rental package, generally only to have to drop them when the budget gets cut. But since I shoot with rented equipment, if I find that the director likes to use something wider than 18mm, like a 16mm, then I adjust the package, maybe dropping a lens at the other end of the scale to compensate. Or I plan on picking up those rarely-used focal lengths on the day only.

With a still camera, you can shoot location photos with certain focal lengths and get a sense of what is needed.

Though personally, I find that 18mm and wider in the 35mm cine formats is distinctively "wide-angle" so it becomes a stylistic decision to use them. I'd rather not put on a super wide-angle lens just to get a wide shot in a room because it looks distorted, unless that's part of the look of the project. Truth is that I favor the middle focal lengths whenever possible, they may be "boring" but they look natural and unforced.

After a day of shooting on a feature, the director and DP get a good sense of what each lens is giving them in terms of view and look.

 

[david farland]

"don't feed the troll"
Back on topic please.

It's not the trolls that annoy me.... but the breathtaking ignorance of the faithful!

D

 

[Roberto Lequeux]

Maybe you should...

Aghhg... you are making me dizzy David! :beer:

That's what I will have a good DP for. I wouldn't trust myself to remember equations, not when my head is filled with story points and so on. I just need to understand your craft enough to be able to have the most productive exchange possible in order to be able to tell the story to its fullest while moving at a good pace.

If you shoot 35mm cine all the time, you know what an 18mm looks and feels like, so you can imagine getting the same look with a 27mm lens on a FF35 camera.

Yes, this is why I am trying to ingest as much clips and grabs as possible. The more second nature focal lengths become the better. I always noticed the effect focal lengths have on the feel of a shot. It is not just about the composition, movement and placement of the camera, and there is also the all important eyeline... and it is all about the sum of the parts, though really it all comes down to the contrast. Contrast between the rest of the shots in the scene, directly related scenes, and ultimately also with un-related scenes.

I keep saying to myself that everything is about contrast.

With a still camera, you can shoot location photos with certain focal lengths and get a sense of what is needed.

Yes, I am planning on doing this. It will be so much fun. I've been up there twice now for scouting and other production related things. I will need to go up there again, and again, and I'll try to get myself a DSLR with a FF35 sensor. I'll take my time and figure out the math for to crop accordingly, for 5k once those numbers are out. Then I thought about edit a photo and opening it up on the camera's screen so I can mark it with tape as close as possible.

Though personally, I find that 18mm and wider in the 35mm cine formats is distinctively "wide-angle" so it becomes a stylistic decision to use them. I'd rather not put on a super wide-angle lens just to get a wide shot in a room because it looks distorted, unless that's part of the look of the project. Truth is that I favor the middle focal lengths whenever possible, they may be "boring" but they look natural and unforced.

I am very concerned with this, however it may work very well for those pivotal scenes. This is one of the things I am eager to discuss with a DP once we lock one in. We will still have the issue of making it look natural in a few smaller scenes, early in the story where "things" haven't happened yet and all should be "normal".

So even if we were able to shoot 6k FF35, we would still need a BIG living room, or at least one set in a sound stage. Once built we would have the freedom of moving walls and ceiling for the other scene happening in the same room.

I am very grateful for you patience and everyone else's. I hope you can understand now why I am so unrelenting. I feel that the more I discuss with DPs the more efficient I will become as a director.

That said... I did not know Primos had Leica glass! that makes sense... Panavision's ideology lines up with that perfectly. Too bad nobody else has done it... could it be that they have a non-compete contract preventing Leica from providing glass to other companies?

 

[Sanjin Jukic]

It's not the trolls that annoy me.... but the breathtaking ignorance of the faithful!

D

"Keep away from people who try to belittle your ambitions.

Small people always do that, but the really great make you feel that you, too,

can become great."

Mark Twain

 

[Roberto Lequeux]

While I agree that the thread is a bit off topic, I also believe that discussion of FF35 alternatives in not far off subject. After all this is the first real Cine solution available for FF35. That makes this the first discussion where DSLR lenses can be "put to the test".

Maybe if the pictures were not embedded and he only posted links it wouldn't feel so bad?

:grouphug:

 

[Sanjin Jukic]

"If you are going through hell, keep going." :sifone:

- Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

 

[Jamon Lewis]

It's not the trolls that annoy me.... but the breathtaking ignorance of the faithful!

D

Who is this directed to?

 

[Sanjin Jukic]

"A man can't be too careful in the choice of his enemies." :rofl:

- Oscar Wilde (1854-1900)

 

[David Rasberry]

Hate to break it to you man, but alot of Leica lenses are made in Japan by Kyocera, old Minolta, and even Sigma.

You gotta be careful when you bring up Leica now adays. the M lenses are like no other, but currently, 90% of product that carries a Leica badge now is manufactured in Japan, specially given the relationship with Panasonic.

Let you know that first that Leica professional lenses are all Made in Germany (Solms), then some of them were Made in Canada (Elcan) and some of Leica consumer lenses still are Made in Japan (a deal with Panasonic).

Cosina apparently bought Leica in 2001. Do they still own them? They may be producing the Panasonic/Leica series.

 

[Sanjin Jukic]

"Forgive your enemies, but never forget their names." :nads:

- John F. Kennedy (1917-1963)

 

[david farland]

Who is this directed to?

don't worry, not you....anyone who ignores Georg's common sense statements and buys on hype, not critical technical analysis!

D

 

[Jamon Lewis]

:thumbsup:

 

[Roberto Lequeux]

So would a lot of you agree that this might be a last minute way to throw something into the game before too much of NAB09 money gets spent?

 

[Evin Grant]

You mean the Compact Primes? No. I believe that Zeiss saw a ripe market for prime lenses below the cost of their current products and created a set the best way they could.
I know for a fact they made prototypes using the Super Speed lens formulas but without lead the glass just didn't have the necessary quality to make it work. Designing from the ground up certainly was an option but would probably have put the price back into the UP range. So this is the compromise, and I think it's a valid one because the new cameras with full frame sensors will need cinema barreled lenses.
But these lenses are by no means "Thrown" at anything.