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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

NEW WORKFLOW FOR EASY 2K MASTER from "M" proxies - THE ROWLAND WORKFLOW

Same quality as Redcine Crimson Workflow?

Same quality as Redcine Crimson Workflow?

So my real question is does this workflow allow for as much control over the entire exposure lattitude as transcoding your R3D files in Redcine with the Red Raw color space and 709 Gamma space, then sending the files to Color, as with the crimson workflow method? Have you done a side by side comparison applying the same grade to each?


Rowland said:
I think I may have figured out a very easy way to end up with a 2K master using the "M" proxies generated by the camera.

The basics:
I cut a sequence in FCP using the "M" size proxies (1024x512) - they work well.
I sent that sequence to Color.
I changed the Project settings in Color to the 2K red dimensions (2048 x 1024).
I graded in Color and rendered to ProRes HQ with dimensions of 2048 x 1024 (2K).
From Color I used the "Send To Final Cut Pro" command.
This creates a new sequence in FCP with the rendered files connected.
In FCP, change the sequence settings of this new sequence to 2048 x 1024.
You now have a graded 2K sequence in FCP that you originally cut using "M" proxies. SOOO SIMPLE! I tried it, it works.
Click to expand...
 
Okay, so after some playing with this workflow tonight I cannot recommended it to anyone:( I sent two timelines from FCP to Color, the first with 46 clips and the second with 13 clips. After CC'ing and rendering, both timelines had one clip that no matter what I would do, would not render out correctly. It kept jumping/repeating at a certain point in the clip. I am sad at this because the native workflow, as far as I am concerned, is still not a great workflow. I much rather go through Crimson and work with either proxies or rendered into AIC codec proxies and finish out from Crimson/RedCine. I wish RED/Apple would fix this issue and make the workflow simple.

Matthew
 
yeah.. that is also my question... I have not seen red footage yet, but I imagine the red proxys are basically shortcuts to the actual footage... or thumbnails if you will of the actual stuff... therefore trying to color a proxy would be like trying to correct a highly compressed .jpeg?

Or am I completely off?
 
Matthew Rogers said:
I am sad at this because the native workflow, as far as I am concerned, is still not a great workflow.

Matthew
Click to expand...

Keep in mind, this is not the "native" workflow. RED has a new FCP "native" workflow which they endorse, and this is not it.

This is a user discovered shortcut which hopefully gives similar results much more easily (it has for me so far).
 
From what I can tell so far, using native L&T media works fine. Sending proxies results in the flakiness described by others, where Color starts looping clips after there's too many in the timeline (it was 30-40 for me).
 
Loren White said:
yeah.. that is also my question... I have not seen red footage yet, but I imagine the red proxys are basically shortcuts to the actual footage... or thumbnails if you will of the actual stuff... therefore trying to color a proxy would be like trying to correct a highly compressed .jpeg?

Or am I completely off?
Click to expand...

you're right that they are not as good as the r3d's, although keep in mind they are pretty damn good, perfectly acceptable for HD broadcast or even projection.

Also remember that you are only cutting with the proxies. as soon as you send to Color, color is reading the r3d's. so you're grading from the highest quality source there is. when you render and send back to FCP, you have an awesome 2k master.

the only drawback i see about using this instead of something like crimson is that your master is 2k instead of 4k. This is not important at all to me, but if you need 4k, then look elsewhere.
 
Are actually grading on the proxy, and then when you render, it applies that color to the r3d and then comes in as 2k to fcp?
 
Loren White said:
Are actually grading on the proxy, and then when you render, it applies that color to the r3d and then comes in as 2k to fcp?
Click to expand...

when you send to Color, your no longer dealing with the proxies. Color is looking past the proxies and working with the r3d's those proxies were referencing.
 
Rowland said:
The reason this works is because Color seems to treat the camera generated proxies almost the same way it treats QT wrapped .r3d files in the latest update.

Please note: This workflow requires all of the latest updates.
Click to expand...

Hello Rowland,

Could you update your workflow and make a comment on Post number 1, that there is a number of clip limitation wich could cause the random looping if too many clips are in timeline? (20 or 30 clips)

Thanks

Patrick

I had this issue with clips form build14 16:9 2:1 25fps
 
Patrick,
I'll look into this clip limitation when I can. I'll make a note of it in post 1. I'll try to find out what is causing problems for people once I'm past some of the crazy deadlines I'm facing.
thanks,
Ben Rowland
 
Hey Ben, check out my thread in the Apple subforum. I found out that it's not a clip limit, but that Color is messing up when your clip is long enough to split into multiple R3D files.

But people are also reporting that the issue happens with the "native" wrapped files, so it looks like it may just be a bug.

Matthew
 
A friend reminded me that the formatting RED uses is FAT32. Which is limited to 2GB file sizes. When it splits the .R3D files, look at their sizes. The 1st .R3D file is always 2GBs.
 
Hello Rowland,

I really like this workflow but now I am experiencing problems with the proxies being really slow in frame rate.

Anybody else hving that problem. I think it might have been updating to the latest quicktime (why did I do that in the first place?)

I posted my test with the proxies on another post. But I was just wondering if it is just me or it is happenning to more people.

This is the LINK for the other post
 
No substantial feedback yet from Red on this workflow, but they've been a bit busy. I'm going to try to work out the kinks in this workflow that some people are experiencing, but it'll be a while - money to be made right now.
 
Matthew Rogers said:
Hey Ben, check out my thread in the Apple subforum. I found out that it's not a clip limit, but that Color is messing up when your clip is long enough to split into multiple R3D files.

But people are also reporting that the issue happens with the "native" wrapped files, so it looks like it may just be a bug.

Matthew
Click to expand...

Hmmm. Thanks for pointing that out Matthew. I'll check that thread out.

All the best,
Benjamin Rowland
 
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