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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

New Weapon Helium First Impressions

AndreasOberg

AndreasOberg

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We finally upgraded to a Weapon Helium that we intend for wildlife.
First impressions after shooting for 2 hours in sunset.
- So LIGHT. Natalie was very happy. She has a weak back so cannot carry heavier cameras (but a heavy backpack is ok). This was the first time she could film for a longer time with a Red camera in her hand and she was all smiles. Which is after all what it is all about, having fun! This reminded her of playing with her Hasselblads and Rollei cameras.
- Colors are way better. Just loved the lush green colors of the grass.
- More dynamic range. Several shots that I know would have activated the stop lights in MX were just fine now. Great to be able to shot towards the sun more
- I miss 96fps bit in full frame but 60fps is great too. 80fps in 6k was also nice.
- I felt the images were a bit more noisy than what Im used to. It was getting a bit darker but I noticed quite some noise already at ISO 600 which surprised me. At MX I can usually go up to 1000 ISO without much problems. Could just have been a mistake as well, will do some more proper comparison in the weekend.
- Cannot play back 8k very well on our computer. The buffer fills up but it just stutters a bit anyway. We have a 2x14 2.7GHz Xeon with 2xTitan X. I think we will upgrade our GPUs later, hopefully that will make it better. But honestly I cannot tell a difference with the half debayer so it is not a big issue.
- The fans are so much lower which I really appreciated
- Resolution. First time we zoomed in at 100% for the 8k image was a bit of a shock. Natalie said it reminded her of the feeling when we looked at our 8x10 film negatives the first time a 1Gigapixel. We knew what to expect but still it was a huge difference to what we are used to. Also the image felt a bit sharper than the MX even at 100%

Going to test Canon 50-1000 tomorrow which should be really exciting. Will post more
/Andreas and Natalie
 
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Congratulations on your new Red Camera Andreas!!
 
rand thompson said:
Congratulations on your new Red Camera Andreas!!
Click to expand...

Thanks! (honestly already feels more like Natalie's camera than mine!)
Better colors is amazing for us that like to grade grade grade!
 
Regarding noise. You might need to properly blackshade. But what I have found is compared to Dragon, if you bump the ISO up you will get noise but it is not ugly noise. I've had no issues using ISO 2500 on occasion. In the end it gets scaled down to 1080p or 4K anyway and the noise looks more like grain anyway.
 
Samir Patel said:
Regarding noise. You might need to properly blackshade. But what I have found is compared to Dragon, if you bump the ISO up you will get noise but it is not ugly noise. I've had no issues using ISO 2500 on occasion. In the end it gets scaled down to 1080p or 4K anyway and the noise looks more like grain anyway.
Click to expand...
Yea I think the noise will be fine, especially after Noise Reduction. Also I need to do a better blackshade and shot in a bit more properly lit situations.
 
Andreas,


You can definitely include me in that "us that like to grade grade grade!"
 
AndreasOberg said:
- I felt the images were a bit more noisy than what Im used to. It was getting a bit darker but I noticed quite some noise already at ISO 600 which surprised me. At MX I can usually go up to 1000 ISO without much problems. Could just have been a mistake as well, will do some more proper comparison in the weekend.
Click to expand...

On Helium, I recommend a manual black shade calibration over the default auto calibration. I've had better luck.

Also, don't forget that you're on ISO calibration 2. So ISO 1000 on MX is the same as ISO 500 on the Helium. You typed 600, so I'm not sure if you meant 500 or if you meant 800.
 
Aaron Lochert said:
On Helium, I recommend a manual black shade calibration over the default auto calibration. I've had better luck.

Also, don't forget that you're on ISO calibration 2. So ISO 1000 on MX is the same as ISO 500 on the Helium. You typed 600, so I'm not sure if you meant 500 or if you meant 800.
Click to expand...
I did not know that! So ISO 1000 on MX is really ISO 500? Is there a thread on this?
 
Thanks Rand
Lots of improvement to the image I can see, very nice.

I just tested Canon 50-1000 and Ronford Baker Atlas 40 and OConnor 2560. Very interesting.
Still reviewing the footage, but looks promising. The Atlas 40 was a clear winner so far in my testing for stability. The 50-1000 image was nice quite as good as our 600x2, but still looked good. The zoom was amazing.
Will write more later.

/Andreas
 
Andreas,

We all will appreciate any write-up you provide on your testing.
 
Some lens comparison. I compared Canon 600 F4 II IS at f8 with a 2x extender since that is what I will use and the Canon CN20x50 at 1000mm f8.5 since that is what I expect to use the most. Some shots were taken at 1500mm as well.

Detail
The CN20x50 gives a bit better results than I thought. In some of the cases it is sharper than the 1200mm. Especially the center seems extra sharp.
We did measure the line pairs and for 50-200mm we could clearly see 200 line pairs which is more than 8k needs. With the 1.5 extender it could barely display 150 line pairs.
When filming trees against a bright overcast sky the 1200mm had better contrast and detail, but in other cases this was not the case.
I shot some chrome details in the center on cars and here the CN20x50 was clearly sharper. No trace of CA here.

CA
There seem to be almost no CA at the center, a bit better than 1200. However it is the opposite at the edges where you got more purple fringing in harsh contrast situations. The 1200 has maybe 2 pixels of green fringing while the CN20x50 has 5 pixels of purple at the worst places in the edges. The 1200 has a general softening with CA that is more spread out, while the CN20x50 displays it very clearly where it is an issue.

Vignetting
8k vignettes so you cannot use it at most. At 7.5k there is no vignetting visible, except a slight darkening around 150mm or so. This should be easy to fix in post. 8K HD also has less vignetting, but I did not test that much since 7.5k worked so good. With the extender I don't think there is any vignetting at all.
You have T5 up to 560mm, then it moves to T8.9 for 1000mm. You lose 1 stop more with the extender.

Operation
The zoom together with RT motion was very convinging. You could zoom very smoothly in and out. It was also nice to zoom handheld, but you introduce vibrations then.
There is a macro button that moves that near focus closer. Apparently MOD should be around 2m.
The 1.5x extender is amazing. Kathing! and you are 50% closer with 1 stop of light
It comes with support leg that is very easy to setup, just one screw.
We did not try the servo since we had it setup for RT Motion.
No lens data seems to be sent to Red or they do not treat it properly. Redcine X reports it as a 50mm lens. This was the EF mount so I would think it would transfer useful information.

Breathing
It has a bit more lens breathing than I would have thought, If I would guess maybe 20-30% zoom if you do a full focus pull.

All to all a VERY impressive lens. It is unbelievable that you can zoom so much and it just keeps focus. I can put up some images later. Wish I filmed more. Sam at CVP was extremely helpful with setting everything up. He spent the whole day with me.

Andreas
 
Andreas,

Thanks for posting your very detailed testing results!!
 
Here is a link to all the comparisons that I have done of the CN20x50 to Canon 600 F4 II IS with a 2x Extender. I consider the 600 to be "reference", without extender the image is very near perfect. With 2x extenders it is not as sharp and has more CA, but this is what I have used so far in the wild.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/153325412@N06/albums/72157695039673041

Simple conclusion is that CN20x50 is very good. The 1200 is a bit better but of course is not a zoom which is a major disadvantage.
 
Andreas,

The Canon 600mm f4, 1200mm f8 with 2x extender, in all of your examples always has the least amount of "bloom" and the best contrast and sharpness. You would think with the 2x extender, extenders which usually decreases the sharpness of lenses, would have made a difference but apparently not. However, "Prime Lenses" are usually better performers than their "Zoom" counterparts, "Usually".
 
Hiya Rand,

The 2x extenders decrease image quality, but because it is an extremely sharp prime it seems pretty much no zoom can compete. Of all canon still glass this is the sharpest I think there is. The CN20x50 is also such a long zoom, I mean it has 20x zoom. I'm sure that if it was say 600-1000 the quality would have been better, but now it is 50-1000 which is of course really extrem.
/Andreas
 
Yeah andreas,

I have a leica 80-200mm Vario Elmar-R, the little brother of the well known 70-180mm, and although @80mm its sharp, its at its sharpest at between 100mm and 180mm and not so much at 200mm also. So I would imagine that the 50-1000mm canon would also have an optimal zoom range within the 50-1000mm range as well.
 
Yes, I would expect that Rand. We will most likely get one since primes are very difficult to use when filming animals.
All to all I'm impressed with the lens, it is quite similar to the 600, but it can zoom!

We just took the Helium out and filmed birds. Also find this little friend crawling up to us. This is zoomed in at 100% with added sharpening. Impressively sharp at 100%! (post processing is done super quickly so a bit harsh)
40284352260_809e9b944c_h.jpg

/Andreas
 
Andreas,


Filming birds and wildlife was something I never had the patience or skill to ever do. I have nothing but respect for those who have both.
 
Rand,
It is worth a shot. You dont need as much patience as you would think. For example this pond has tons of birds and little insects everywhere. I see it more like relaxing in nature with the Red and friends. Can't imagine a better time to spend time. Oh yea and there is the carrying of heavy tripods of course but then it makes us stronger :D
 
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