New user: considering an EPC & a Sony

[Fergus Hammond]

Hi all,

This is my first time posting here, so my apologies if this is a topic that's been covered before.

I'm in the market for a camera that's a step up from my DSLR, mostly for documentary and some sports. High frame rate is important, which rules out the current Blackmagic cameras, and I don't want to wait for the Cion or URSA.

My best choices are probably the PMW-F5/55 or the EPIC-X. I'd like to start simple, with a minimal shoulder mounted rig, then add items as I figure out what I need (ok, want).

On the Sony side, that's pretty easy and I know what I'd buy as a starter set. Sony actually sells a pretty good starter set, which I just need to add a few things to (i.e., raw recorder, handles, mic)

But I'm a bit lost on the Red side. Between nebulous ship dates ("Coming soon!") and a giant variety of rigs, it's not easy to figure out what a good starting set is and there's nowhere nearby I can see the choices.

So, my short question is this: What would you suggest I get from Red and perhaps 3rd party companies to build this:

It's missing the raw recorder and a mic but otherwise is what I'm looking for - at least to start (though without the Ultra Prime!).

Thanks,
Fergus

P.S. Fixed a typo. I wrote EPIC-M but I'm not nearly that artsy and I really meant EPIC-X. Also, I should have mentioned that I did speak with the Bomb Squad and they were definitely helpful describing the Red components but obviously not the 3rd party ones.

 

[Burke Doeren]

If you're aiming to get an EPIC-M DRAGON, this kit could be a good starting point for you: http://www.red.com/store/products/epic-m-red-dragon-pro-collection with the addition of a shoulder pad: http://www.red.com/store/products/shoulder-pad

The same kit is available for an EPIC-X MX, and if you don't need the new sensor system right now, you could save some costs up front as well: http://www.red.com/store/products/epic-x-pro-bundle (also needs the shoulder pad: http://www.red.com/store/products/shoulder-pad).

You might also want to check out the Pro I/O module to get those XLR and TC inputs built on to the body: http://www.red.com/store/products/pro-io-module

And remember, you can always work with one of RED's Bomb Squad (sales) agents to customize a kit for your needs. Give them a call and they'll go over everything with you.

 

[Terry VerHaar]

First thought to kick things off... why an Epic-M and not just go with an X? Saves $5K and is functionally equivalent. Also, there is no "coming soon" - they are listed as "In Stock" and my guess is that you could have one in a matter of days.

Also, the good/bad news about RED is that the system is modular. So, you can get to the above in a variety of ways. If you are going to drop $40K or so, I'd suggest wandering around the RED store and looking at the power options, monitoring possibilities, control modules, mount options, etc. It's hard to give you definitive guidance here until you start to ask more specific questions.

Have fun shopping!

Also, lot's of 3rd party add-ons to enhance functionality. Google A-Box for XLR adaptor.

 

[Fergus Hammond]

First thought to kick things off... why an Epic-M and not just go with an X? Saves $5K and is functionally equivalent. Also, there is no "coming soon" - they are listed as "In Stock" and my guess is that you could have one in a matter of days.

Also, the good/bad news about RED is that the system is modular. So, you can get to the above in a variety of ways. If you are going to drop $40K or so, I'd suggest wandering around the RED store and looking at the power options, monitoring possibilities, control modules, mount options, etc. It's hard to give you definitive guidance here until you start to ask more specific questions.

Have fun shopping!

Also, lot's of 3rd party add-ons to enhance functionality. Google A-Box for XLR adaptor.

Whoops: I mean EPIC-X, not M. On the "coming soon", I meant the components, not the actual camera brain itself. But thanks for the tip on the XLR adapter; that was definitely on my list as something to figure out, as I don't need all that the Pro I/O offers.

 

[Nate Clapp]

If simple shoulder mount handheld is important to you I'm afraid I would suggest sony f5/f55. Before I get flamed to kingdom come, let me clarify that this is my opinion, not a law of physics. That said, no one has shown me nor have I found on my own any handheld rig for the RED that I actively like. My biggest complaint is two fold, the Brain portion is too tall for too long on the bottom, forcing any rig that might use the pro/I/O or quad batt module as the rest of the camera to sit too far forward and still too high on your shoulder.
To reiterate: all handheld rigs for RED seem to sit way too high on the shoulder, and are way too fiddly afterthoughts.
Mime holding a camera yourself. Jamb your elbows into your chest (for support) cradle the imaginary lens with your left hand. THIS is where the lens should be on a good handheld rig. I have recently used an f5 and it was a world of difference handheld. Also, keep in mind that the RED stuff tends to be built like a brick shithouse, which means it is all metal beefy construction, but it also gets heavy fast. If I were to go handheld all day with an EPIC I would be tempted to strip EVERYTHING off it except touchscreen (cheesplates get heavy quick) and even run battery off a fanny pack cabled to camera, much as I hate that style of handheld and a tether.
As far as image etc, it is a but tricky to sort. Epic really only best to shoot at 4/5/6k due to windowing the sensor, which is fine if that is what the client wants. If you have a lot of clients happy with 1080 then again, I would go Sony. If you like simple image controls go RED. If you want global shutter go F55. If you want light sensitivity and relative cheapness go F5. If you want best dynamic range go Dragon.
Or buy them all, and use the right camera for the job��

 

[Bérenger Brillante]

For shoulder you can use the allstar dual bridge with their sliding shoulder pad. Low profile and lightweight. Nicely done. Their handles system is really good too.

Dot bother with the pro I O just get the +1 module, and the new broadcast 4k module, if you really needs it.

If you don't want red module, grab the action product Apollo, protease and elekra system, as well with the audio bottom plate + xlr. Their are priceless.

 

[Shane Kelly]

I'd have to agree with Nate. If you are shooting a lot of handheld In a documentary style, I'd go with the f55. The shoulder form factor beats any epic configuration and believe me I've tried to get the epic into a comfortable documentary setup.
I actually own an epic and an f55 and use them for different jobs. The 2 k crop on the Sony is great for doc situations where you want less depth of field and is great in low light.
If you are going with the epic,W00den camera have great accessories to out fit the camera for a handheld situation.
I would suggest going to a rental house and seeing what solutions they have come up with for a HH configuration.-.they have to figure this stuff out for many different users.
I personally use an element technica mantis left over from my red one days and a solid camera Evf mount that allows me to position the Evf where I need it.