New to RED - Necessary Skill to work with a RED camera.

[Jay A. Kelley]

Josef, there is some good advice on this thread. However, The Red 101 DVD will show you around the Red. It won't show you how to shoot or work in post.

Agreed.. Hence the title of my post: Here's your start.

 

[Rob Ruffo]

people who think you just buy a red.. set an iso.. point and shoot, are living on the moon.

I'd say further - Mars.

 

[Josef Gatti]

You're All Awesome

You're All Awesome

This feedback has been outstanding guys/girls(?). I've come into a small amount of money enough for a 550D (T2i) and I'll be getting one next week or so to practice lighting/focus until the release of the scarlet. I'm due for a dSLR anyways, so it works out nice.

Honestly this is some outstanding feedback, RED has got a really great community going on here.

And for all those discussing my film school, it is a garbage uni for film. I've had to take the initiative myself to learn what I have thus far. I'll be looking to find work rather than "education" once i finish my degree at the end of year.

Thanks to everyone. Advice is greatly appreciated!

 

[joshua csehak]

Alexander, I have to respectfully disagree with you. Using a RED really isn't hard at all, if you're used to shooting any camera in full manual mode. In fact, I'd say it's a hell of a lot easier. You probably want to spend a weekend doing tests, making sure you're not screwing anything up, and most importantly, make sure your computer can handle the footage, but really, the guys at Red have a vested interest in making it as easy as possible to use without sacrificing quality, and they've done an amazing job at it.

It's definitely a lot easier to have someone else pulling focus while you operate, but you don't absolutely need it, depending on what you're shooting. Handheld run-and-gun with the Red is not the most fun in the world, but it can be done.

As for the light meter, I've found it's most useful in making you look like a hardcore DP (which has some value, I don't deny). But mine ran out of batteries a while ago, and I haven't really felt a need to get new ones. One of the biggest advantages to the Red is its amazing set of exposure tools. You've got the histogram, the stoplights, and 2 false color modes (3 if you count the focus, but I've had a tricky time getting that to be useful. Gonna have to play around with it more one of these days). Get to know those well, and you'll know exactly what values are hitting the sensor. It's really pretty amazing; it completely changed the way I work. More than once, I've purposefully under- or over-exposed b/c I want to get the most data on the sensor, knowing I'll bring it to the correct exposure in post, and Graeme's FLUT will make it beautiful. And I've found that the Red LCDs really do a pretty good job of representing what you're getting. Just bring the brightness all the way up, and 4 clicks down.

Anyways, all I'm saying is, don't be afraid of it. It's just a camera. And don't buy one to start out. Rent it and see how it works for you. Then buy one when you find out how much it does

As for the Scarlet/Epic, everything I've said goes double. I'd be shocked if it wasn't so light and easy to use that a one-armed monkey couldn't shoot with one.

 

[Alex Kornreich]

Seriously guys, please let's not fool ourselves. A Red is extraordinarily simple to use (which is a good thing). Post, not so much, but actual camera operation requires minimal intelligence. With AC's ive worked with who haven't used the Red, they normally catch on within an hour or so.

All the issues most of you are pointing out are cinematography issues. That requires real experience and a real education.

 

[Peter Franzen]

As for the light meter, I've found it's most useful in making you look like a hardcore DP (which has some value, I don't deny). But mine ran out of batteries a while ago, and I haven't really felt a need to get new ones. One of the biggest advantages to the Red is its amazing set of exposure tools. You've got the histogram, the stoplights, and 2 false color modes (3 if you count the focus, but I've had a tricky time getting that to be useful. Gonna have to play around with it more one of these days). Get to know those well, and you'll know exactly what values are hitting the sensor.

This is more in line with what I assumed to be the case with these cameras. Everyone around here extolling the virtues of a light meter sound exactly like the people who were saying "learn to shoot still photos on film and with a light meter, then move on to digital once you understand the basics" when dSLRs were starting to become popular.

Obviously meters have significant and important uses on a wide variety of projects, but I'd wager that a novice could learn a hell of a lot more in a weekend by studying histograms than they would running around with a light meter.

 

[Alex Kornreich]

As for the light meter, I've found it's most useful in making you look like a hardcore DP (which has some value, I don't deny).

This is more in line with what I assumed to be the case with these cameras. Everyone around here extolling the virtues of a light meter sound exactly like the people who were saying "learn to shoot still photos on film and with a light meter, then move on to digital once you understand the basics" when dSLRs were starting to become popular.

Obviously meters have significant and important uses on a wide variety of projects, but I'd wager that a novice could learn a hell of a lot more in a weekend by studying histograms than they would running around with a light meter.

So how do you go about getting light ratios with a histogram? Or better yet, histograms tell you some part of the scene is clipping, but which part?

Waveforms are a little more useful, but still dont solve the first problem, and only barely the second.

Light meters are precise. Between incident, spot and reflective, you can get every value for each part of the scene specifically. Light meters are hardly expendable.

I think a light meter used in combination with false color is the most powerful. I've only occasionally glanced at the histogram, and never waveform (I don't like the way red implements it). Waveforms are great for post though.

 

[joshua csehak]

So how do you go about getting light ratios with a histogram? Or better yet, histograms tell you some part of the scene is clipping, but which part?

Well the regular false color mode (I forgot if there's a specific term for it) shows red for anything that's clipping in the highlights, and purple for everything that's too noisy in the darks. So you know exactly which parts of a scene are clipping. As for ratios, the video false color mode has different colors for different IREs, so you can tell at a glance how bright something is relative to something else. Is that not enough for you?

I do feel like I'm doing myself a disservice by tossing out the light meter -- one of these days I'll have forgotten how to use it -- but I almost always shoot chromes for stills, and I use the meter for that. Just haven't shot stills in a while, need to get back into that...

Also of course not saying it's better to not use a meter -- whatever works best for you is always the best solution.

 

[Alexander Ibrahim]

Alexander, I have to respectfully disagree with you. Using a RED really isn't hard at all, if you're used to shooting any camera in full manual mode.

That is a big if, and if you have noticed the central consideration.

Its been addressed time and again on this thread, which I again assume you have not read through.

I'm beginning to think you are just following me around and disagreeing without any regard to what I am actually saying. I've already written several posts here. They all have the same theme, did you read any of them?

I agree that IF you have experience shooting cinema cameras (35mm film, D21, F35, Genesis or similar rigs), then you can just power on the RED and go shoot. You'll have a lot to learn, but you can get good results almost immediately.

I never said RED was particularly hard, but for some reason you keep arguing that point. By arguing against a position I am not taking, you are making a straw man argument.

The central concern in this discussion is what do you recommend to a film student (an incoming freshmen at that) to learn the craft with?

I suppose I should point out that the "craft" is cinema style camera operation. Frame, focus, expose. Repeat 24 times per second.

I'd be comfortable recommending a Scarlet to a film student firmly committed to cinematography, but it will be some time before you can buy one without a wait. (i.e. Stage 4, shipping immediately, like Red One today.) In my opinion, even Scarlet would be an expensive way to learn at this early stage of a career.

What I suggest to this film student is that they learn the skills to operate film style using the cheapest available camera. I suggested ether a 7D or T2i camera to learn with. For roughly the cost of a daily RED Rental one can own a camera with which to learn.

I believe that, regardless of your opinion of the camera's final results, it is a useful tool for teaching cinema style operation. Focus is still focus, framing is still framing, exposure is still exposure. Whatever accessories you use to build the camera up can be used with other cameras later- probably to better results. (I know my FF seems to "work better" on a real cine lens than it does on DSLR glass. Granted its the lens that improved.)

Let's face it, you need a lot of accessories to get good results from any cinema style camera. A follow focus, rails, matte box, filters, monitors... it goes on. Many DP's and operators have many times more money invested in these accessories than they do in a camera, and for good reason. The filter I bought in 1999, that was made in 1969 still works perfectly, even though the camera I bought to use it on is long gone.

So, to sum up: Operating a RED camera is not any harder, or easier, than operating any cinema camera. It has plusses and minuses but overall its about the same from a skills perspective.

Thus, you can learn to operate a RED or an ARRI 435 with any camera which presents the same problems to the camera crew. Like a 7D or T2i.

Post is a different issue.

The skills a DP needs for RED post are very different from those needed by the DP for photochemical post. Once you have output from either telecine or REDCine, it becomes standard digital post. The objectives are no different regardless of medium.

As to your notions of dispensing with a light meter because of RED's awesome exposure tools... you are doing yourself a disservice.

How are you going to maintain a specific look? Think one scene with elements shot in different locations, at different times, possibly with different crew and different gear? Using a light meter lets you collect numerical data which you can use to create very precise matches if needed at any time.

A light meter is a core tool of the craft. There are ways to work without one... but none that I would recommend to a film student. A film professional has to balance what they know are best practices with production realities- but that is a whole other discussion. I can say that I use my meter every single day I am on a set if I am working in any camera or lighting role.

Remember the audience, and for goodness sake read the entire thread before posting an argumentative position.

Regards,

 

[Gunleik Groven]

Hey RED users,

I'm new to this forum, and to RED in general. After some heavy research, I've concluded that RED provide the best camera for me as a film student. I've been saving up for about since high school (a little over 2 years) and I've finally found where to spend my money. My only concern is, if I purchase a RED Scarlet in the future, will I be able to operate one? I spoke to a RED hiring company briefly and the guy advised me not to hire one because I probably wouldn't be able to operate one efficiently. I don't have a huge amount of experience with cameras, the most being on a Canon XLH1A.

Thanks to all.

Having read this thread... -
I basically think both the advice trends here are good.

It is NOT hard to make a nice image with a RED.

but:
A lot of the things you need to know to shoot a film, will take practice, experience, kit, people and knowledge.

Still, most important:
It's hard to learn to swim without gettin' your feet wet. -

Don't rent a cam for a weekend.
But:
Bribe/work/schmooze/befriend a RED owner/renter, so that you can play with it and filmoptics (thus I don't really agree with the 7D advice...) as much as you can.

Yup. You'll need a lot of kit for the R1 to behave as a filmcamera.
BUT there's no harm in learning stuff step by step and taking nice images as you go.

There are many operating the RED1 as a one-man-crew in many situations.

There are a lot of compromises involved,
You probably won't be able to shoot handheld @ 3meters from subject @ T2 following a moving subject. (I don't say that noone manages this, but sorta out of the box - I think it is not very likely...)

But then, be practical - stop down a bit and try to make it as good as you can. It IS a rewarding process.

As to the 7D/5D advice - I actually have a hard time comparing RED shooting with shooting 7D/5D, because there are so few applications where these cameras work well, while the R1 works well in most situations a camera should work well. There are som many additional hassels with the current crop of dslr's, that I cannot see them as a good way to learn to assemble and shoot a filmcamera.


There are (at least... -) two kinds of RED users, and often they miscommunicate quite gravely.
But if you manage to communicate and listen to both, you may learn a lot.

One is the general purpose photographer with a wide array of operating and dp situations, both commercials, films docu and nature.

Steve Gibby here is probably the loudest and highest profiled exponent here for this kind of approach.

http://reduser.net/forum/member.php?u=186

You can even see it from his avatar. Single operator, no mattebox. No Follow focus. But definitively one of this formums hardest working profesionals.

For lack of words, I would call Steves approach: Practical.
Adjust to your situation and make the best of it.

You got a R1 and an 18-50 zoom, no filters , no mattebox, no AC, no FF?
Well: Good for you. Make the best of it!
Get experience. Shoot some nice images, get some gigs, make some money, and learn to handle what tools you have the best you can. Don let yourself be stopped by the lack of a filter. There are ways around most hurdles, and the R1 one is such an unbreakable piece of quality kit, that there is no real reason not to shoot.

The light changes from one shot to another?
Well, you know, that's how nature works. Have you ever watched "Barry Lyndon".
Images are cut together with extremely shallo DOF and extremely deep DOF in the exteriours. When Kubrick can do that, why can't I????

Steve probably has a broader customer, experience and commercial base than most here, and his practical approach to the RED and photography in general is a relief sometimes.

And he can get out and shoot, have fun and make money with the most basic kit imaginenable.


On the other hand, you have the "classical" filmcentric approach - where the need to be able to controll light and camera in a way that will give you continuity in light and DOF independently of external circumstances.

OK. That takes some kit and crew... -
Your cam will weigh in from 15+ kg's (without support), and you should at least be a DP/operator + an AC/focus puller, sound enginneer, boom operator + a grip/lightcrew. (I really do not see how you can not - as a total rule - be DP/operator, but that's another discussion...)

Not that you will actually need all the kit all the time, but circumstances change quickly, and you need to be prepared for and controll any change and demand.

NOT that you have to shoot everything @ T2 even in this setting. Shallow DOF is only part of the game, but you need to be able to shoot @ T2 and controll light and temperature under any circumstance if that is what you/the DP wish to see.

For lack of better words, I would call this aproach: Controll-centric.
You are supposed to controll light and looks - often DESPITE how the surroundings changes around you.

The most prominent exponent for this approach on this board - who also is a frequent poster is David Mullen:

http://reduser.net/forum/member.php?u=1950

Fun thing is that I do not find David "impractical" in any way. But the approach to photography is definitely different to Steve's.

Thing is:
Both are right IMHO.
Both are highly regarded professionals.
Both have merit for their approaches.

And none of them would tell you not to shoot RED or film or whatever untill you have done: (fill in painfull learning experience here).
Don't worry. Those painfull experience will pop up - whatever advance precautions you take... -

There's no way you'll learn to handle any camera from a book... -

That is NOT to say you shouldn't study. You should. But get practical experience - with and without a lightmeter, as much as you can and as diverse as you can. That way you can learn to controll different situations in a way that satisfy YOU and hopefully those you work with and for...

And that - is probably the best business and general advice I can give you... -

Go for it. Have fun!
Be ambitious, but allow yourself to take nice images as you go. Don't let ambition kill creativity!

And: It's only a camera
The more you understand of exposure, the more variety and fun you will have.


Gunleik

 

[Josef Gatti]

Looks like I'm in for some experience

Looks like I'm in for some experience

Turns out i scored an unpaid gig with a commercial broadcaster here in Australia for about 3 weeks. I'll be sure to ask how to do all the things you guys have suggested. Thanks again!

 

[joshua csehak]

That is a big if, and if you have noticed the central consideration.

Its been addressed time and again on this thread, which I again assume you have not read through.

I'm beginning to think you are just following me around and disagreeing without any regard to what I am actually saying. I've already written several posts here. They all have the same theme, did you read any of them?

Sorry man, but there's nothing even remotely personal going on here. If I ever meet you at Red Day or something, I'll buy you a beer to prove it I did in fact read them, and I was throwing in my 2 cents. Josef was looking for some advice, and for him, it's best to get opinions from as many people as possible. I said I disagree with you cause you were the first person to say using the Red wasn't easy, and seemed to be the staunchest supporter of that. Which isn't wrong! I just happen to disagree.

I agree that IF you have experience shooting cinema cameras (35mm film, D21, F35, Genesis or similar rigs), then you can just power on the RED and go shoot. You'll have a lot to learn, but you can get good results almost immediately.

I was actually saying, and maybe I didn't spell it out enough, that if you're used to working on a 7D, or an ex-1, or a varicam, or an HV30, heck, even a still camera (as long as someone tells you, "hey kid, set it to 23.98 fps, 1/48, and 4k HD, and leave it there until you learn why"), in full manual, it's pretty easy.

I never said RED was particularly hard, but for some reason you keep arguing that point. By arguing against a position I am not taking, you are making a straw man argument.

You implied that it actually was hard. And not just you, a lot of the other posts. Saying you were on Mars if you thought it was easy. Maybe it's not "easy," but if you think you can just turn it on, set the iso, framerate, aperture and focus, you're not that far off, IMO.

The central concern in this discussion is what do you recommend to a film student (an incoming freshmen at that) to learn the craft with?

I suppose I should point out that the "craft" is cinema style camera operation. Frame, focus, expose. Repeat 24 times per second.

I'd be comfortable recommending a Scarlet to a film student firmly committed to cinematography, but it will be some time before you can buy one without a wait. (i.e. Stage 4, shipping immediately, like Red One today.) In my opinion, even Scarlet would be an expensive way to learn at this early stage of a career.

What I suggest to this film student is that they learn the skills to operate film style using the cheapest available camera. I suggested ether a 7D or T2i camera to learn with. For roughly the cost of a daily RED Rental one can own a camera with which to learn.

I believe that, regardless of your opinion of the camera's final results, it is a useful tool for teaching cinema style operation. Focus is still focus, framing is still framing, exposure is still exposure. Whatever accessories you use to build the camera up can be used with other cameras later- probably to better results. (I know my FF seems to "work better" on a real cine lens than it does on DSLR glass. Granted its the lens that improved.)

Hell, if the kid can afford a Red and the post hard- and software to process its footage, more power to him! But I agree -- the 7D is a great place to get started, and all in all, more financially responsible if you're just starting out.

As to your notions of dispensing with a light meter because of RED's awesome exposure tools... you are doing yourself a disservice.

How are you going to maintain a specific look? Think one scene with elements shot in different locations, at different times, possibly with different crew and different gear? Using a light meter lets you collect numerical data which you can use to create very precise matches if needed at any time.

Ah, that makes sense to me. Yes, I'd use a meter in that situation. It just hasn't really come up. Well, it's come up when I've shot pickup shots for a certain scene and it would've been nice if the previous DP had had a notebook with the meterings for the scene, but he didn't know we were gonna have to shoot pickup shots, so I don't blame him; you just do the best you can.

I'm really curious how many other DPs really meter every shot when shooting on the Red, and if it's because they really think it's necessary, and why, or because they're just used to it and it works for them (which is also great, of course). I wonder if it's threadworthy.

Don't rent a cam for a weekend.
But:
Bribe/work/schmooze/befriend a RED owner/renter, so that you can play with it and filmoptics (thus I don't really agree with the 7D advice...) as much as you can.

Ha! Even better. I made the assumption that that option wasn't on the table. And you know what happens when you assume -- sometimes you're wrong.

As to the 7D/5D advice - I actually have a hard time comparing RED shooting with shooting 7D/5D, because there are so few applications where these cameras work well, while the R1 works well in most situations a camera should work well. There are som many additional hassels with the current crop of dslr's, that I cannot see them as a good way to learn to assemble and shoot a filmcamera.

Agreed that the 5D/7D are a lot harder to work with than the Red, but I think what people are saying is that it's good to learn on them for exactly that reason. It's like, if you can get a good image out of a 7D, the Red will be a cakewalk.

But more importantly, you're going to want experience with as many different cameras as you can get your hands on, so you can pick the most appropriate tool for the job. So the real answer is, "all of the above!" If I was shooting narrative for the big screen, Red in a heartbeat. Narrative for the web, Red if it was in the budget, 7D if it wasn't. Documentary -- Varicam, or ex-1 if it was low-budget. Anything where a low-profile is most important -- 7D. (Or soon, Scarlet!)

Turns out i scored an unpaid gig with a commercial broadcaster here in Australia for about 3 weeks. I'll be sure to ask how to do all the things you guys have suggested. Thanks again!

Congrats! That's the best way to learn, by far.

 

[macrylinda1]

Josef, there is no problem for you to operate a Red or a Scarlet !

The Red have lots of setup and fonction but you don't need to play with all those setting. (but you can if you want more fine tuning and control)

Set the ISO to 320 (which is already the default setting in the camera) and shoot!

All you have to do is to set the IRIS and pull the FOCUS on the lens ! (The Scarlet will have autofocus with AF lens)

If you want more control on outside shooting put a mattebox with ND filter to cut the amount of light.

Don't be afraid, there is a lot of urban legend outside about the Red. :smash:



Editing with FinalCut Pro and the proxys is very easy.

EDITING WITH RED "MYTHBUSTERS", Check this out: http://www.red.com/red_mythbusters/

Download and read the manual ! It could help you to understand the fonction and the possibility of the Red One even if you don't use 95% of those fonction. :smiley:
http://www.red.com/support

Regards

I don't know you so I may be way off base... but setting the aperture and focus is a skill that must be learned, and if your experience is with XL-H1 then you probably haven't learned these skills yet.

Go learn them on a cheap camera.

Everyone else is saying that shooting RED isn't particularly hard, but they are all assuming you already know how to shoot a camera. Its true shooting a RED is no different than shooting any other film camera.

A badly operated RED will produce crappy images. There is no magic post technique or setting in the camera that makes you a good camera operator or a star 1st AC.

All those settings and details are specific to RED, and while they are different than what you can do on a XL-H1, they are even less important because the RED records RAW.

Screw up the aperture or focus and you are completely out of the game. Get those right and RED can be very forgiving as you learn.

Oh, and PLEASE forget about autofocus. Really. Its a bad thing... so don't do it. Scarlet and Epic won't really do autofocus in the traditional sense anyway.

 

[Alexander Ibrahim]

Having read this thread... -
I basically think both the advice trends here are good.

It is NOT hard to make a nice image with a RED.

but:
A lot of the things you need to know to shoot a film, will take practice, experience, kit, people and knowledge.

Still, most important:
It's hard to learn to swim without gettin' your feet wet. -

Gunleik's post is great.

I tend to disagree with him about the utility of 5D/7D footage. For some reason people keep hanging on to the limitations of the camera, despite it doing good work that is regularly broadcast.

Doesn't matter: You can still learn to pull focus as suggested on a cheap DSLR. I think that takes lots of time to learn well, and its more important than whatever camera you have.

I've come up with a better way to say all this:

Get a DSLR and cinema support gear.
Start shooting and learning ASAP.
When the camera market settles down a little bit, get a Scarlet, a RED One or an Epic or maybe something none of has seen yet. Or maybe something entirely different- like a PMW-350.
Take all the support gear you bought for the DSLR and use it with the "real" camera.

You still have a nice DSLR camera.

My point is that I value the crew's skill and professionalism far more than any camera platform.

Given a choice between

my choice of an Alexa, s35 film and RED MX with a new crew eager to learn

and

A 7D with a top notch crew

I'll choose the top notch crew every single time for any shoot under almost any conditions.

So, I am urging you to focus on the skill not the gear.

It doesn't matter in my mind if you want to be Steve Gibby or David Mullen. I know either of those guys can work in each others style if they wanted to (or had to) Both of them have the same core skill sets.

How do I know? Well, even though I want to be a cinema director/DP... I can and do work ENG/EFP shows. That's where all my early paid work was- and I have both skill sets- mostly because they are really just different ways of using the same core skills.

 

[Gunleik Groven]

EDIT
Alexander and I posted at the same time. This post isn't meant as a comment on his latest post...
But my dislike for 5D comes after 60 days of combined shooting with 5D (I didn't shoot the 5D though) side by side by the RED - for broadcast...

Anyway - Enjoy your gig

And thanx Alex!
As to your comment about kit vs skilled crew - I totally agree!


Problem with the 5D/7D thingy is that it is harder in the wrong way - imho.
You cannot run with the things, nor take nice images of fixed pattern stuff. And pulling focus on them is not hard, it's kinda silly-hard compared to cine-glass.

The things that DO look good is closeup shallow DOF stuff with a reasonably easy/slow moving cam.

These limitations are actually worthwhile sometimes, as there isn't a proper alternative out yet. But as a learning experience for RED or anything else creative and fun...

Some 15 years ago I was a big advocate of the "no pain no gain" philosophy. But now...

Why spend time doing crappy and painfull stuff, when you can use the time to have fun and do beautifull stuff... I just find that more inspiring.

But then again, that's just me.

The same could be said for a lot of things. Shooting film. Whatever.

But I seriously think that an EX1 with a s35 PL mountn front, is a more relevant learning/substitute object on the cheap, than the DSLRs.

And that is actually NOT to bash the DSLRs. They have their place.

Point made.
It's just a couple of cents wort anyway of opinion...

Happy you got that gig!

Make the most of it!

 

[Alexander Ibrahim]

But I seriously think that an EX1 with a s35 PL mountn front, is a more relevant learning/substitute object on the cheap, than the DSLRs.

And that is actually NOT to bash the DSLRs. They have their place.

I sort of agree that an EX1 with PL mount adapter is nicer than a 7D, but it also costs a LOT more. Like $8000 without any PL glass. I'd look at the same sort of rig with Nikon or EOS lens mount. The glass is very cheap (especially if you buy used) Its still several times more than a 7D.

Also, you need more powerful lights to get rolling with an EX1+adapter set up, which I rate near ISO 250. You can get good results with the 7D up to ISO 800.

Other than that, yes I'd accept an EX1 as a good learning rig.

At those prices though, you could look at a Scarlet S35 if you wait for that to be available.

All this misses a key point. I learned 35mm work style on an ARRI 35mm camera. Then I shot an XL-1 and ENG camcorders for years. I spent a lot of time on a HVX200 with a Letus and Nikon lenses, then a RED with Zeiss ZF lenses.

Now, while I'm getting back to PL mount lenses, this DSLR thing comes along and changes stuff. I wish I had a camera like the 7D available when I started. If I did I would have learned faster, just because of more time with the camera.

I also would accidentally have made smarter choices about what gear, especially camera accessories, to invest in.

So, I envy the choices new film makers have today in regards to gear. It has never been cheaper to start learning the trade.

 

[joshua csehak]

I sort of agree that an EX1 with PL mount adapter is nicer than a 7D, but it also costs a LOT more. Like $8000 without any PL glass. I'd look at the same sort of rig with Nikon or EOS lens mount. The glass is very cheap (especially if you buy used) Its still several times more than a 7D.

Also, you need more powerful lights to get rolling with an EX1+adapter set up, which I rate near ISO 250. You can get good results with the 7D up to ISO 800.

Yeah, price being the same, I'd rather have an ex1 with a PL mount, or a nikon mount, or even just the ex1, but you definitely get a lot more bang for your buck with the dslrs. Heck, you can get two for the cost of one ex1, and that makes the 12 minute clip limit almost moot. And I'm so spoiled with iso 800; I don't ever want to go back!

 

[Josef Gatti]

Just wondering, would those who have experience recommend multiple lenses or is a single 18-55mm lens enough to begin with? Considering I have little experience yet. The alternative is getting the twin pack, 18-55 and 55-25mm.

Cheers

 

[Alexander Ibrahim]

Just wondering, would those who have experience recommend multiple lenses or is a single 18-55mm lens enough to begin with? Considering I have little experience yet. The alternative is getting the twin pack, 18-55 and 55-25mm.

Cheers

I don't think I know the lenses you are talking about.

I got my 7D with the 18-135mm EF-S zoom. Its f/3.5-5.6 ramping. Its a pretty crummy lens, and that's typical for a kit lens.

If I had it to do over, I'd still get that crappy 7D kit. That is a great walking around lens- at least for daytime exterior shooting. I can live with a f/5.6 aperture outdoors, and I can hold that constant over the entire zoom range. Its good for stills (again daytime exteriors!) and not so good for video- but you can work with it.

One neat feature of that zoom (and other low end lenses I am told) is that the manual focus ring moves during autofocus. That can be a huge time saver. What I will do to set marks is flip the camera to stills mode and get marks with the AF (which is very accurate) That moves the follow focus handwheel, and my AC just marks it and then uses the marks as normal during taking.

That's a basic start.

As a next step, I'd recommend combining one of the f/2.8 wide zooms with some primes to fill out the tele end. I recommend a Tamron 17-50 (the cheaper one) and a 50mm and 85mm f/1.4 prime. I'd also look for a 100mm Macro.

I've used a few Canon zooms... but honestly until you get very wide (Tokina 11-16) all SLR zooms are VERY bad for manual focus. So, while you seem to get a great value in "covered" focal lengths it will cost you in production time.

So, for DSLR photography you really eventually want a full set of primes with a good manual movement. I recommend Zeiss ZE lenses, especially the Duclos conversions.

(You can get various clip on rings... but those always manage to cost me time on set. I fell in love with the Duclos conversions after using some old Nikon F mount Primes on a RED.)

Lenses are, to me at least, far more important than the camera. So invest in them, and don't be afraid to spend some cash to get what you need.

 

[Stephen Pruitt]

I just have to jump in here and say that RED isn't just not hard to use, it is, to us at least, the easiest camera to shoot with we've ever encountered. Assuming you know how to light a scene even a little, and just keep the image from blowing or heading into noise, it's just about impossible to get a bad shot with the RED.

Exposure is clearly a key. . . just keep 'er between the ditches.

Lighting with real depth is the another key.

The third key? Knowing what will make an interesting shot.

With those three legs of the tripod, RED has given us the ultimate point and shoot camera. Magic happens every time.

Does this mean you'll be a master cinematographer? Absolutely not.

Does it mean you'll be able to get really good images right out of the box? Absolutely.

Stephen