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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

New to RED-29.97 frame rate and workflows?

P

Philc

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This is our 1st RED project so some workflow questions:

1. Shooting build 17...4k 2:1/29.97 - prefer smoother look with pans, etc. than 23.98
2. Final delivery is HDcam 1080i/59.94 derived from final 4k split into (2) halves (left and right) to be rejoined by multiple projection blend at live venue.
3. HD offline on MC Adrenalines 2.8
Also need good quality HD as will not be used just for offline
4. Final Conform on Avid DS with 4k DPX and then split into (2) 1920x1080 halves for output to HDcam.
5. Final projection is not quite full 4k projection...3305x1296 approx. 2.55:1

Here's the workflow I want to test:

Red Rushes for DNxHD dalies
FilmScribe XML from MC into cineXML
cineXML into Redcine for basic color
ALE? into DS for conform

Main questions right now is frame rate.

1. What frame rate for Red Rushes? 1080p/29.97 not option here or in MC...only in 720p. However, I believe DS has 1080p/29.97.
2. Red Cine has 29.97...should I go that route for DNxHD? Then 1080i/59.94 in MC?
3. Should we choose different frame rate for shooting? I would rather not if possible.

Finally, I've read posts and 4k to DNxHD 175bit conversion with Red Rushes is approx. 30:1 for full quality...am I interpreting correctly? Compare with Redcine?

Thanks for any help.
 
1080p/29.97p is currently in Symphony and DS, but not Media Composer. Also, the 1080p/29.97 needs to be added to the DNxHD Codec which then needs to have an update to REDrushes if using that to create offline media.

I haven't tried REDCINE to make 1080p/29.97 - I need to look into that. As far as DS conform... it will be AFE and a dowload later this week...

Michael
 
Thanks Michael,

I wonder if I should convert RED 29.97 into DNxHD 1080i/59.94 since that is my final HD master, which rules out REDrushes but appears to be option in RECINE and MC and DS.

The DS conform...is the upcoming download an update for DS software or RED apps?

Phil
 
I will give 1080i a shot from REDCINE - that certainly is an option if it works. The update I referred to is for DS.

Michael
 
So the REDCINE route involves:

Render DNxHD at 1080/59.94
Export XML
Convert XML via TestXSLT to create ALE
Import ALE and DNxHD clips into MC

I believe my colleague has tried REDCINE to ALE a few days ago and posted some issues with ALE content translation...is this working now?

Thanks.
Phil
 
If it's the same person that got a hold of me, then yes. The issue is in the changes to REDCINE with their latest version. He (you) should be set now as far as ALE is concerned.

Michael
 
Yes, I was referring to Rick Menze on 02-05-09 with the issue...we were using REDCINE 3.1.8. I'm at home and I don't know what the end result was. Sorry if you have already sorted it out with him. I'll try to contact him now for update.

For the REDCINE XML to ALE conversion should we be using TestXSLT or REDCINE_ALE XSLT ?

Phil
 
TestXSLT is the host application that processes XSL files. The REDCINE to ALE is the one you want for ALE creation. We are still sorting out the backend which should be done by Monday afternoon.

Michael
 
Thanks Michael! That is helpful. I'm going to test some of my earlier workflow comments tonight to see where things lead me in regards to the 29.97 .R3D to 59.94 DNxHD thru REDCINE...or?

I only have RED 24p test files at this time, however the RED shoot starts tomorrow morning so I will have 29.97 footage by end of day!! (fingers crossed)

Phil
 
We have now received RED footage - 4k/29.97.

Current workflow choice is:

Create DNxHD and ale in REDrushes as it appears the fastest
Offline MC Adrenaline 2.8 at 1080i/59.94
Export EDL
Create DPX thru Monkey Extract
Conform on DS ver10

Q1: We chose REDrushes DNxHD 1080-175 10 bit even though our 29.97 frame rate is not available above 720p. We successfully created ale and imported media into MC 1080i/59.94 which plays and looks great. But am I missing something? Am I going to have problems later in conform?

Q2: I'm wondering if by using the REDrushes presets am I just gaining the ability of fast import into MC project at same settings or is there more to it than that?

Q3: Are we in fact doubling the compression process with this workflow and will there be any visible artifacts? Our HD needs to be good quality at this stage for other uses.

Thanks for any input.
Phil
 
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