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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

New Sony Sensor Technology. Thoughts?

So we're finally getting around to killing the Bayer method that is straight out of the 1970's Digital Devonian era?
"Every pixel can now capture full color information rather than RGB" . . . what took so long smart guys?!?!
 
16 000 frames per second in 2K?!?!? (Yeah, I don't think so...)
 
I'll tell you a story, a long long time ago, in a country not too far away from most Red user members, a company called Foveon had invented a vertically stacked RGB pixel. Foveon didn't do too much with it and their parents are drying up, so every top line camera manufacturer with a sensor division seems to be preparing their own version of it, apart from the HTC sensor manufactured at ST and UniqueIC's.

According to Foveon, the response overlap between the layers now allows them to accurately calculate each color (I would guess because you know the percentage the caused by the overlap. to take the error away). What Sony has come up with I don't know, maybe it is one of the other solutions, but they aren't saying. In this industry we usually keep things under wrap. The first rule about fight club, is you don't talk about fight club. (Sorry checking out a h metal concert at the moment while I'm feeling up to it).

Now what the contradictory values are. is maybe the same thing I was working on. one of the colors maybe pixel shifted to give 4k from 2k.
 
Anyway, battery is running out, 2 or 4 years ago a rumor leaked that Sony is working on a million pixel sensor, and they were also working on a 3 color pixel sensor. Using Foveon's trick of counting each layer in a pixel as a separate pixel, that could mean a full video 33mp 8k sensor (and in a big size). Sony has had heating problems I'm the last, but signed a criss licensing agreement with Aptina last evade I think, that did high speed cameras, I forgot if they did the Phantom cameras sensor. Hence these sensors are getting serious data speed.

Have a good night, enjoy. I want one myself ;) .
 
I forgot, advances in mobile memory and flash replacements, means they should be able to handle a lot higher data rates, and eventually cheaply. The future is coming here.
 
If that new sensor technology works as advertised, then it's quite a major breakthrough forward for digital cinema and digital video areas. Of course, the final product (a camera) is only as good as it's inner electronics, compression ratio, media storage, power consumption and myriad of other things. You could make a great sensor, but if it comes with refrigerator on the back, you know, does it matter how good is the image. The frames out of Dalsa and subsequently Aaton Penelope Delta both look beautiful, but unfortunately we all saw how well things turned out for those.

Bayer sensor or not, you need lots of horsepower to handle processing of images at 250+ fps in 4K+ resolution without compromising image quality. I'll wait for the first test footage, but I'm excited about new technology, nonetheless. Better low-light and color rendition? Sign me up.
 
Read my previous posts about this Vadim.
 
http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/sr4-...sony-apcs-active-pixel-color-sampling-sensor/

More details. Way less excited now, it's not a stacked sensor. They're shifting the bayer pattern filters back and forth so that each photosite records:
Red, then green then blue. That means in fast motion you won't have color synthesis.

I guess since it'll be in a mosaic pattern and the ultra high framerate will help dither if they repeat the process hundreds of times per exposure. But I don't expect we'll see this in motion picture cameras.

What is interesting though is that number where they see 21 stops of dynamic range at 5,000 ISO.
 
There will be issues as movement shifts points between interlaced color samples, stripple probably. Where did the other technology go.

To be more confusing, Sony has been using the term "stacked" in reference to non color circuits too.
 
Sony and Samsung are on to something amazing here, it makes perfect sense to trial technology like this on devices where the camera acts as a secondary or tertiary function. No doubt we will be seeing this tech on professional bodies in a couple of years. Very impressed by Sony's continued improvements and dedication recently while Canon shovels manure down our throats thinking 60fps at 1080 is going to set the world ablaze....twats!
 
Sony...

So many bad experiences as an owner of the cinema cameras.

I can't forget how horrible to see the new camera beats my over $20K cameras every single year and I sold that camera kit for 8k within two year.
Even when I had FS700 + Odyssey 7q - Total investing was around 13- 15 K + accessories, I was so shocked when I saw A7S beats my camera like nothing.
I don't want to experience that happens in my life ever. Therefore, although I might be a cave man, I will stick with old RED camera rather than the new beautiful slow mo camera.

Only one thing I miss from sony after I moved into Red is that One man band is almost impossible. Red camera reminds me "Cinema = Team work"

But, really I think I miss that Sony NP batteries so badly. -One small battery runs entire day.
 
You are going to get the same thing with Red Minu, either they are going to offer something better or a Sony sensored camera eventually will. But sensor improvements will slow down or change feature direction (Sony 16k+ holographic). Within two or three years I suspect we might see the last great improvement for a while (2000% QE and maybe 20+ stop etc and multi colored pixels, 8k maybe, maybe holographic) but at the moment the latest technology can film in low light reasonably, what more do we need?
 
Wayne Morellini said:
You are going to get the same thing with Red Minu, either they are going to offer something better or a Sony sensored camera eventually will. But sensor improvements will slow down or change feature direction (Sony 16k+ holographic). Within two or three years I suspect we might see the last great improvement for a while (2000% QE and maybe 20+ stop etc and multi colored pixels, 8k maybe, maybe holographic) but at the moment the latest technology can film in low light reasonably, what more do we need?
Click to expand...
I just got the Dragon. Can't even comprehend all that.
 
It's just how the industry works Jeffrey, eventually they will start tapping out performance gains and have to look at features and design (holo layered color etc) for new product. But you have a dragon, its going be good for tears to come, nothing really wrong with that sensor, you can get a good image in most situations with a descent lens without doing too much to the light path.

But if Jim wanted to do a camera company and a sensor, there is a lot to keeping it going with new product. You have to keep innovating, at a much faster pace than previously. Sony has to be outdone, the cameras have to hit all the marks for usability and use in non film work. The previous firmware 3D has to be out, you have to have sensors coming to match and beat the competition. QE, 2000% 20-27 stop 20 bit+ recording, 8K+, 16k+ holo, 3 layered color. There is a lit of work left to come, it is not a simple business. The buyer has to be able to come along and look at a Sony and a Red, and at least think, "Hmm, I think I'll buy a Red today". When fans get board they might jump to something they perceive as better, so always try to be good enough across camera segments (same camera internals, different: firmware mode features, enclosures controls and ports) eng news, run and gun documentary field,, interview, studio, wedding and other small local, info and ads, production bookings (the majority of the market). We are talking about streamlined software flow and industry file formats. This is something BM partly understands I think, but don't have the sensors or as deep camera tech. That is something some competition can't survive easily.
 
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