New Scarlet Package or Used R1MX

[Jason Honeycutt]

I'm new here so I apologize that this topic has been touched upon but I'd love more insight than the threads I found. I'm no DP by any means, an editor by trade (17 years) and I've been directing music videos for about 14 years now... my DP is a rockstar, super talented. We've shot on the RED (and Alexa) but he does all the work, getting the look I want. I'm just looking for a camera for my own personal projects; short films, possibly no-budget "features" - that kind of thing. I'd just need to get up to speed on doing it myself.

So, I'm looking for the best picture available, at the end of the day. I know the R1MX has more framerates and a bigger image but I'm surprised to find out it seems that most people on here favor the image of the older R1MX than the Scarlet, and even sometimes the Epic. Obviously the R1MX is a great camera and maybe we're all splitting hairs, especially compared to the other available camera companies out there that can't stack up to any of the three... but I was all in for the Scarlet until I saw the various issues about noise and just the general "feel" of the picture. I just (originally) assumed that when it's the same processor with the Scarlet and R1MX, the picture will be identical in RAW... but apparently that's not the case.

I have a chance to buy a used R1MX package, one for $19K with low hours and a RED 18-50 T3 and EVF... and the other is from a rental house for around $13K... both include sticks, mattebox, and FF. With that said... would you guys go for one of those... or just buy the newer Scarlet for around $20K? My concerns come from the various YouTube and Vimeo footage tests... I rarely have seen even the most "amateur" shoot bad footage with the R1MX but I've seen a wide variety of Scarlet footage... I've seen some great stuff, but some stuff looks a bit "plasticky", if that makes sense.

I know the R1MX isn't future-proof like the Scarlet (with the Dragon processor coming out) and I know there's a big gamble on a used camera... but these prices seem good. And, the R1MX has looked so good already; Social Network, Muppets (yes, that actually was DP'ed well, haha), Winter's Bone, etc. I look at it like an old Arri 35mm or something, yeah... it's old but it's proven to shoot well and the look is good.

I don't know... I'm rambling... I'm just extremely torn with what to do here. I'd totally appreciate your guys' advice on this since you all are faaaaar more experienced.

 

[Steve Sherrick]

i'd consider going with whatever shooting package gets you the most bang for the buck. If you can find a complete R1 system with lens, mattebox, sticks, etc within your budget might be worth it. Epic is the best of the 3 but i still like the r1 image too. when you light to its strengths it can get you some amazing visuals. if you are concerned about upgrade paths, R1 is not the camera i would recommend.

 

[Jake Wilganowski]

Just my humble, I'd go for the scarlet. The size and modularity is a huge advantage, not to be taken lightly. You can make beautiful images with it, don't even worry about that. Used ones are around also for good prices if you keep your eyes peeled.

 

[Jay Birch]

Don't forget the possibility to upgrade to Dragon too.... I don't think the R1 will have that option

 

[Giuseppe Pugliese]

The DP makes the image, not the camera. Any differences you see between R1MX and Scarlet will be between variation of DP and lenses and budgets. If a slightly difference in image, remember its the same sensor and same compression.. and all that.

These cameras will only shine with a good DP. It's just a tool. Why do you want to pay for such an expensive endeavor if youre and editor and not a full time DP?? Why not get something like an F3 or FS700 or camera in that range? You can save the money, without losing quality. Put that money towards making films, instead of a camera that you wont push to its limits because you're not a full time DP.

 

[Jason Honeycutt]

Thanks for all the great advice so far... big help. I'm definitely now leaning toward the Scarlet.

Why do you want to pay for such an expensive endeavor if youre and editor and not a full time DP?? Why not get something like an F3 or FS700 or camera in that range? You can save the money, without losing quality. Put that money towards making films, instead of a camera that you wont push to its limits because you're not a full time DP.

Good point. Actually, I used to shoot a lot... mainly on film, but then I got so tired of the expense, changing bags, meters, etc. I'm actually still very happy with my framing, lens selection, etc... but where I'm terribly lacking is the menus/interfaces on these new cameras.... but I began to fall back in love with shooting after "one man crewing" my $600 34 minute short, that's doing surprisingly well at festivals... gave me enough confidence to get out of the lame DSLR world and get my own RED. The big flaw in my film is that there's not enough 'weight' to it, that I feel comes from not having that cinematic motion (or whatever it is that RED does so well). I've seen so many bad films but they look great, due to them being shot on the RED so it seems like judges are quicker to accept them based on the production value first, story second. I figure that I'm going to buy because I'm going to be doing more shorts and instead of renting a RED (of some kind) at, say, $1,000 a day... I could have my own to really learn on. I'm also so close to getting microbudget financing for an indie "feature" and I'd like to use the money on top of the line cine lenses, then 'rent' my camera to the production budget.

I've been number-crunching like crazy the last couple days... it seems like the basic 'used' Scarlet packages are around $15K, but they are are lacking SSDs and batteries, so I'd have to tack on another $2,000 or so to get a usable package. Or, I could get a super-loaded R1MX for $13K with sticks, mattebox, follow focus, and some other extras like 640 and 320 drives, etc. I'm just debating... is it worth the extra $4,000 to get a Scarlet "lite"... or the older, big ol' beast; the R1MX. I think the Scarlet is the smarter way to go (with the Dragon processor coming), but then I see a film like "Social Network" again and it's like, "Well, that kind of picture is possible with this rig... and if Fincher was in video village," haha.

 

[Shervin Mandgaryan]

R1 MX

+ Cheap
+ MX Sensor
+ 4.5K
- End of Life
- Limited software updates in the future if any
- Big and clunky
- Takes 90 seconds to boot up
- No HDR-x
- Not modular
- No dragon upgrade path

Scarlet

+ Small
+ MX Sensor
+ HDR-X
+ Modular
+ 5K should you need it
+ Interchangable 'Smart' mounts
+ Constantly updated and improved
+ Touch screen w/ 5.0 LCD
+ Dragon sensor upgrade path available
+ 15 second bootup time
- Not as cheap as the MX
- With added modules, etc... becomes pretty heavy

 

[Jason Honeycutt]

Thanks for all of the great advice! I'm now a proud owner of a Scarlet

You guys have been a huge help, I'll still be around looking for other advice. I started off wanting the Scarlet a long time ago... wavered, tried to convince myself of the Black Magic... then various others... then back to RED... thought Scarlet was going to be too much so I started looking for R1MXs. I found some great packages but then, with everyone's help and convincing, I realized that the R1MX, as amazing as it currently looks, is as good as it will ever look. Everyone knows that, right now, the Alexa is the gold-standard due to the latitude... but the MX is right there for half the cost if you go with Epic, 1/4 the cost if you go with Scarlet. But when the Dragon comes out, it should put RED back in front. And granted, it's splitting hairs between Alexa and RED, I love them both... everything else, to me, is way behind, including any of the Sonys.