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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

New Scarlet Concept

Thanks guys -- I guess I need to do some more research on S16 lenses! Part of it is I guess I'm in love with Leica, so any chances to use their lenses (like the M's) so easily makes me excited. Like Sanjin, I consider Red + Leica the ultimate combo :-)

Also, I'm not a shallow DOF freak but it's nice to have the option/flexibility when the shot calls for it -- and it's just plain easier with a larger sensor.

About the sensor, one thing that's obvious is that many people (myself included) have been influenced by the whole "large sensor envy" that the DSLR movement has helped create. It's silly, I realize. Most of the great films in history have been shot on S35 or even S16 .....

However, part of my post was also just coming from a marketing perspective. If a huge part of the market is inundated with a "larger sensor is better" mindset -- why give potential customers something to complain about, or a reason not to buy. (Yes, it would be "their loss" but still!)

If there's one thing that's clear in how Jim responded to Sony and Panasonic's recent announcements ... it's that he's a pretty competitive guy (to say the least). He's about to produce vastly superior cameras in the Epic line, and I have no doubt about the Scarlet -- but changing the sensor size in the interchangeable Scarlet would literally give the AF100 NO SIGNIFICANT advantage (other than release date! :-P).

So why not at least consider it? That's all I'm saying ....
 
"So why not at least consider it? That's all I'm saying .... "

Time is my guess, it would delay the product even further..... do we really want that. I could handle and kind of expect a next generation scarlet or whatever to come out in the next line, or who knows when, but I have the feeling they have something in the works.
 
If I could think of an ideal system for my own use, it would be the Scarlet fixed combined with a Scarlet 4/3 interchangeable, along with a few of the common modules. Then renting better glass/other brains as and when jobs call for it.

Thinking about the tele conversion feature in the GH2, this allows more or less 2 formats in the one body and potentially is a great feature, which would allow possible matching of looks between the 2/3 and a fictional m4/3 Scarlet.

For now, I think there is enough to look forward to with the fixed and how it and it's lens performs.
 
AnthonyFlores said:
but changing the sensor size in the interchangeable Scarlet would literally give the AF100 NO SIGNIFICANT advantage (other than release date! :-P).
Click to expand...

1. Larger sensor isn't an advantage in all cases. Neither is shallow DOF.
2. A fixed zoom equivalent to the Scarlet 8X for a larger sensor isn't exactly cheap to produce.
 
AnthonyFlores said:
but changing the sensor size in the interchangeable Scarlet would literally give the AF100 NO SIGNIFICANT advantage (other than release date! :-P)
Click to expand...

mmmm, I think price is pretty significant.

The Bomb EVF is around 75% of the price of the entire AF100 camera.

Availability (not just launch date) is another. In January (maybe feb) you will be able to walk into B&H or any other decent camera store around the world and buy the AF-100 and any accessories you want... no fear of going on back order.
 
Eki Halkka said:
1. Larger sensor isn't an advantage in all cases. Neither is shallow DOF.
2. A fixed zoom equivalent to the Scarlet 8X for a larger sensor isn't exactly cheap to produce.
Click to expand...

In cinema you are right, but from a marketing perspective -- given the state of the industry and the shallow DOF craze -- larger sensor is almost always an advantage.

Note: I wasn't talking about changing the fixed -- I agree no one wants that to be delayed. But since we don't know much about the release timeframe of the Scarlet interchangeable -- I was simply raising the consideration of making it 4/3 so that it's perceived to be superior to the competition in every way.
 
Jim Retar said:
mmmm, I think price is pretty significant.

The Bomb EVF is around 75% of the price of the entire AF100 camera.

Availability (not just launch date) is another. In January (maybe feb) you will be able to walk into B&H or any other decent camera store around the world and buy the AF-100 and any accessories you want... no fear of going on back order.
Click to expand...

True, but again marketing perception is often based on camera-to-camera comparisons. Yes, the Red EVF is expensive but not everyone will need it -- not at least right away.

Likewise with availability. Yes it's important. But people's perceptions will be more based on statements like "Scarlet does this or Scarlet his this sensor ... and Panasonic AF100 has xyz"

Just think of when people are considering whether to buy the 7D or 5D. They weigh the pros and cons ... 7D is cheaper and has HD monitoring ... but the 5D produces a nicer image and is full frame, etc

While Canon has sold a lot of 7D's -- especially to budget conscious prosumers and filmmakers -- you can't deny that they've probably sold even more 5D's (at least to those who focus exclusively on video/film) and it's largely because of one single thing: Sensor size.

When it comes to sales and marketing, size matters.

Anthony
 
I think people's perceptions will be hugely based on availability. As a non R1 owner, I have been following the bomb evf thread with alot of trepidation. People have been on backorder for 12 months now and this could easily, some would even say likely, happen with Scarlet and the components.

If both cameras had the same availability and the current know prices tags (eg, $5750 for fixed package.. $4500 for AF100)... then yes, RED would outsell the AF100, if they added 4/3 sensor, they would probably outsell everything.

But, alas, they don't and wont.
 
on a side note, the 4/3 sensor is not always an advantage, especially to people with low budgets. In scenarios with low light where you may need a decent depth of field I'm happy with 2/3 as I can put on a f1.2 and not have only an inch of focus to work with.

oh and back orders are hopefully due to switching over the whole system, storage, offloading, batteries etc, to the DSMC line and generally being busy with the new line up, I would assume that when they launch the respective cams they will have a large supply, only makes sense, and to assume they have done nothing about that doesn't make sense to me.

but then again these cameras are so different and unique that lets say they did slowly trickle out and same with accessories I still wouldn't care until someone else builds a camera in the same price range with the same or better features.

but from what I have seen at red i very much doubt they are going to let that happen, I think this is just the unfortunate growing pains time and we all (not me R1 owners) need to tough it out (I know very easy for me to say that).
 
I have projects booked and the cash to buy one system... so it becomes more nerve wracking. (rental is not ideal, as we shoot in far off locations.. mountains, glaciers etc).

Hopefully you are right, but with the "everything subject to change" tag... I might have to sacrifice my RED dreams this time around and use a more stable camera company.

Maybe something will change my mind in the next 6 months though.
 
Okay others probably knew this but I found some interesting lens possibilities -- the most intriguing of which is the Angenieux 16mm zooms, which seem awesome and very affordable:

http://www.visualproducts.com/storeProductDetail03.asp?productID=150&Cat=8&Cat2=20&Cat3=27#bigPic

http://www.visualproducts.com/storeProductDetail03.asp?productID=150&Cat=8&Cat2=20&Cat3=27

I have no ideas how these lenses look or perform, but I've heard nothing but great things about Angenieux from DP's and people on this board. New ones in 35mm format cost $20,000-$50,000 and are slower.

But again, I have no idea about these -- they might be 20-30 years old and more "vintage" looking on screen.

Nice to know there are some really cool options though -- thanks guys :-)

Anthony
 
I have the Angenieux 12-120 and it is a great piece of glass. I recommend u buy as much of this kind of glass as you can. It's already increasing in price and when the Scarlet is out they'll likely quadruple or more.
 
Yah $1-2,000 for a super fast zoom of a legendary company like Angenieux -- seems like a steal, again considering that their 35mm zooms cost tens of thousands of dollars.

How heavy is your 12-120? I guess that's the only drawback, limits the mobility and lightness of the Scarlet a little :-)
 
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