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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

New red/apple plugin.

Jean Déraps said:
Will this plugin work with the RED Rocket™, i.e. with the related processes be accelerated by the Rocket? It would be nice to be able to use Color with realtime playback and render with the new colour science...
Click to expand...

Agreed. I have also never been happy with how Color debayers the image, or the fact that I cannot adjust the quality level that Color uses either. Because of these reasons, I still do not use Color to access the R3D's, and instead use RedCine to export out to Color. I would love to be grading off of the R3D's, but the quality loss just is not worth it to me ...
 
Ryan E. Walters said:
Agreed. I have also never been happy with how Color debayers the image, or the fact that I cannot adjust the quality level that Color uses either. Because of these reasons, I still do not use Color to access the R3D's, and instead use RedCine to export out to Color. I would love to be grading off of the R3D's, but the quality loss just is not worth it to me ...
Click to expand...

agreed
 
I actually mimic things in Color and people can't tell the difference from properly debayered image from Redline to Apple Color rendered image.
 
Ryan E. Walters said:
Agreed. I have also never been happy with how Color debayers the image, or the fact that I cannot adjust the quality level that Color uses either. Because of these reasons, I still do not use Color to access the R3D's, and instead use RedCine to export out to Color. I would love to be grading off of the R3D's, but the quality loss just is not worth it to me ...
Click to expand...

Color 1.5 performs a full debayer at 4k. Are you referring to issues regarding a partial debayer at 2k?
 
Adil Lahoulou said:
Color 1.5 performs a full debayer at 4k. Are you referring to issues regarding a partial debayer at 2k?
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I suspect his issue is that there is little control over the full debayer, no OLPF adjustment etc. Playing with RedAlert or now Redcine-X or even Nuke[1] - you will immediately realise how much more could be being done in the Color pixel pipeline. I've found subtle texture on fabrics revealed in RedAlert that weren't visible coming from Color.

Indeed, there are so many wonderful things one could do in terms of noise reduction and sharpening if one had access to the debayer pieline as early as possible. I know nothing about how flexible the SDK is, but would love if there was a way to plug in at any point.

----
[1] How did Nuke end up getting so much better debayer control so quickly compared to Color - Foundry's developers are pretty amazing...
 
Ian Andolina said:
[1] How did Nuke end up getting so much better debayer control so quickly compared to Color - Foundry's developers are pretty amazing...
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Nuke's not the only one. Pretty much every third-party app has better support than Color. And that's the key, *third party*. They have teams of developers who get paid good money to keep on top of things, and they have a competitive need to stay of top, lest their customers go elsewhere.

RED, on the other hand, doesn't have as much of a drive to keep their stuff up-to-date. Color's not their software, and it really doesn't affect their bottom line one way or another.
 
The debayer in Color sucks due to lack of control. I really am not sure if it truly is a full debayer. Just one more reason to transcode and work with ProRes 4444 or other codec.

Hopefully the new plugin brings us some real goodies. Bummer about the lack of Rocket support in Color thus far. Hopefully We get Rocket support and more control over the RAW transcode for L&T ingest, that would be huge!
 
Jeff Kilgroe said:
The debayer in Color sucks due to lack of control. I really am not sure if it truly is a full debayer. Just one more reason to transcode and work with ProRes 4444 or other codec.

Hopefully the new plugin brings us some real goodies. Bummer about the lack of Rocket support in Color thus far. Hopefully We get Rocket support and more control over the RAW transcode for L&T ingest, that would be huge!
Click to expand...

TIME OUT!!!!

What makes the debayer out of Color SUCK. Would RED publicly agree with that statement? What is this based on?

read this. Third Paragraph is very pertinent...

http://reduser.net/forum/showpost.php?p=544663&postcount=2
 
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OK, Suck was the wrong word. But I don't know what is going on. If I render out of Color and then compare with a render out of RED ALERT / REDRUSHES with full quality and best settings, I get a superior image out of the RED tools. With the new REDCINE-X, it's even more apparent, there's no contest. I think what's going on is that Color's debayer implementation is outdated and we have no control over sampling filters, OLPF compensation (assuming there even is any in Color), etc..

Anyway, let's see what the new plugin brings us. Hopefully there will be some nice improvements. An update is long overdue! It's been almost 7 months since the last release.
 
David, try running through an R3D through Color and then through RedAlert/RedCine-X

The differences I see are in sharpness/debayer.. Color sucks when it comes to debayering. Don't quote me, but I think Color isn't accessing the full debayer
 
Jeff Kilgroe said:
OK, Suck was the wrong word. But I don't know what is going on. If I render out of Color and then compare with a render out of RED ALERT / REDRUSHES with full quality and best settings, I get a superior image out of the RED tools. With the new REDCINE-X, it's even more apparent, there's no contest. I think what's going on is that Color's debayer implementation is outdated and we have no control over sampling filters, OLPF compensation (assuming there even is any in Color), etc..

Anyway, let's see what the new plugin brings us. Hopefully there will be some nice improvements. An update is long overdue! It's been almost 7 months since the last release.
Click to expand...

Agreed!

The RED tools are always sharper. The "old" Redcine yielded better images than RA did.

But, does teh SDK let you access everything that REDCINE-X does? Also, Color is a full grading app, whereas the other tools are not and are not practical for these purposes.

Does any RED tool have a spec for broadcast? You can't get any of the stuff to match what a QT will look like...just saying. It's not all rosey over ther either, unless you are pulling still frames....

David
 
Maz Mawlawi said:
Wasn't one of the features of RR that it would be integrated with multiple applications Like Adobe Premiere/AE, FCP/color, Vegas etc...? Redcine -X is really nice, but I still would like to be able to use the full benefit of RR in my editing/vfx/coloring application.... :-)
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This is the big dream that makes the RR an even more attractive offering.

So far only Assimilate.

David
 
Richard Darge said:
David, try running through an R3D through Color and then through RedAlert/RedCine-X

The differences I see are in sharpness/debayer.. Color sucks when it comes to debayering. Don't quote me, but I think Color isn't accessing the full debayer
Click to expand...

Color 1.5 acesses the full debayer of the r3d file. QT might be the bottleneck. You can add a touch of sharpening in Color. It might also be GPU processing of Color. I've been very pleased with the results.


David
 
David Battistella said:
Color 1.5 acesses the full debayer of the r3d file. QT might be the bottleneck. You can add a touch of sharpening in Color.
Click to expand...

But with what settings? The OLPF other tweaks at the debayer stage make a small but significant difference to the amount of detail extracted. Adding sharpening way after the pixel stream has been extracted is not anywhere near as optimal.

Anyone who plays pixel-peeping with RAW converters for still cameras will know the significant differences the debayer method produces, in some cases revealing detail simply not present elsewhere. Even comparing Lightroom 2 to Lightroom 3beta, the differences in noise floor and detail/sharpness are significant.

And as Red recommend the FCP > Color workflow, one would hope that the quality through this path would be optimal. I do understand that the Red guys are making magic just about everywhere and some of their core post workflows have been left to sit a while, and technology done right takes time to cook well. But many 3rd party teams (including the free Clipfinder!!!!!!!!!) could implement Red SDK and new color science quickly.

Anyway, :beer: for the next plugin hopefully coming soon! :)
 
Ian Andolina said:
And as Red recommend the FCP > Color workflow, one would hope that the quality through this path would be optimal.
Click to expand...

It still baffles me why they recommend that - or maybe they do not recommend that, but it is just that Apple is the first / quickest to support R3D's? - either way the way FCP and Color handles the R3D's results in substandard processing which ends up with less then optimal files. Color may be accessing the full debayer, but something is going on the prevents it from being shown in the final file. Right now, I go from FCP > ClipFinder > Color if I am in a rush, otherwise I go FCP > Crimson > RedCine > Color. I'm looking forward to when I can trade out and use RedCine-X in that workflow ...
 
David Battistella said:
Color 1.5 acesses the full debayer of the r3d file. QT might be the bottleneck. You can add a touch of sharpening in Color. It might also be GPU processing of Color. I've been very pleased with the results.


David
Click to expand...

That was my Color mimicking trick, I was talking about. Glad you feel the same. I see the same result doing this and the having OLPF on and off.
 
Ryan E. Walters said:
It still baffles me why they recommend that - or maybe they do not recommend that, but it is just that Apple is the first / quickest to support R3D's? - either way the way FCP and Color handles the R3D's results in substandard processing which ends up with less then optimal files. Color may be accessing the full debayer, but something is going on the prevents it from being shown in the final file. Right now, I go from FCP > ClipFinder > Color if I am in a rush, otherwise I go FCP > Crimson > RedCine > Color. I'm looking forward to when I can trade out and use RedCine-X in that workflow ...
Click to expand...
You can do FCP>Clipfinder>Redcine X
Export an xml from FCP
Import into Clipfinder
Replace mov with R3D (if you previously edit with offline prores)
Select All
Make a new folder in you system and copy the R3Ds
Open the folder with the browser of Redcine X
Grade, render and then conform with Clipfinder

If you feel brave you can disable the safe mode in Clipfinder and using the L&T function to move only the clips used in FCP editing.
And yes, the debayer capability of Color is quite bad although I think Color is a really good software. Let's see if the new plugin is better.
 
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