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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

NEW PRICES! but im very conflicted

Jon Jones said:
If you guys don't think you'll lose business for this then your short sighted. Just wait until everyone in your neighborhood is holding a $4000 R1, and then see who your clients pick when the guy down the street can do the same thing that you can do for 1/3 the price.
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Why stop there - as a producer - why don't you do it for free? That is the question. There are plenty of students out there who can endlessly shoot for their reel. No need to pay anyone.
 
I lost Value of my Epic-X but In a few weeks, will be the right time to put my Old REDone accessories on Ebay for New REDone ($4000) owners.... I See $$ on my old accessories (lol)
 
I don't want to be harsh but....Moore's Law says that you are going to lose your electronic's asset value over a short period of time.

As acquisition devices increasingly rely upon electronics, this type of price movement is absolutely expected. That's why I invested in glass and microphones (which don't have chips) and, have yet to purchase a camera.
 
Ted Parkes said:
I had no idea there were so many insecure cinematographers out there. My clients hire me for what I bring the the table and if that includes the camera I own then great. If not then they rely on me to suggest and often arrange the right camera for the job. What this means for us that bought cameras at a hire price is a month or two more before we have full ROI. Then the guy that buys tomorrow... big deal.
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+ 1,000,000
 
Nathaniel Kramer said:
Jon, i guess its like old times once again.. You are wrong. MY clients dont go with camera ops. They dont go with the lowest price.. I dont and wont ever work for those peeps. The majority of my clients book me for my skill/talent. In Tulsa , the taste and sophistication levels are not the same as here in NY. Tulsa isn't exactly a film or fashion destination, and thus why you have such an opinion.
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I'm sorry - but what a horribly smug, snide, self-congratulatory post in my opinion. It must be lovely for you that you are so amazingly talented - not to mention as humble as Ghandi - and work at the apex of the world's culture but this advice is just useless. Not everybody is in the same boat as you but that doesn't require that they be patronised. Oh well, at least you did it in a nice vain mocking tone so it wasn't all wasted energy typing it.
 
Kwan Khan said:
I lost Value of my Epic-X but In a few weeks, will be the right time to put my Old REDone accessories on Ebay for New REDone ($4000) owners.... I See $$ on my old accessories (lol)
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I bought 2 epic-x in later September for my project next year (I now feel really regret to buy them earlier), now I really hope the dragon Epic can keep the original epic price because I got the free update, and 6k$ update for old epics, so old epics' owners can feel comfortable.
 
Jon Jones said:
If you guys don't think you'll lose business for this then your short sighted. Just wait until everyone in your neighborhood is holding a $4000 R1, and then see who your clients pick when the guy down the street can do the same thing that you can do for 1/3 the price.
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If they can do it for 1/3 the price, then the capital cost of the camera is waaay too high a proportion of your expenses.

But yes, thats the way of the future to a small degree; cameras capable of the highest quality professional results ARE going to only get way cheaper. They ARE going to be a smaller part of the equation; you're going to get business based on what you can DO, not what you own or how much you have invested in it.

Anyone with talent can own a Red and rent a decent set of glass, and if they have more talent that you they WILL give you trouble.

Mike
 
Jon Jones said:
Good thing I bought those Ultra Primes and the Alura 45-250 zoom then ;)
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Agree 100%. Investing in glass is always wise. 'Investing' in digital cameras is a fool's game.

Mike
 
I really feel for you guys who have huge investments in your camera packages. Feels like a sucker punch because it's real money that we are talking about.

But when I stop to think about it, this will have an impact on the entire camera market, right? This affects Arri, Sony, Canon, BMD, and the owners of all those respective cameras as well. More people prefer the look of the Alexa, but will that be worth the extra 50k or the 4k/wk rental? The price adjustment will make people look very carefully at the differences in image quality, which brings me to my second point.

Epic looks pretty good, right? It's the leader in resolution and framerate, and lags a bit on DR and color. So a producer looks at the packages offered by some of the other companies, then how much they will save for something that is as good or better... then Epic wins.

The most interesting part of this for me, is that IF RED DIDN'T DO THIS, SOMEONE ELSE WOULD! Look at what BMD is already doing, and Canon with the DSLR's, or the GOPRO... I think Red saw the writing on the wall, and they chose to choose their own path to the bottom on their own terms and timeline instead of being forced by a competitor. I, for one, am glad that it's red doing this instead of someone else.

Why would any company drop prices like this? It's insanity really. Why not spend the money on FUTURE R+D, or bolstering support, or entering new markets? I sincerely believe that it's because Jim and Jarred are more interested in making cameras than making money, and they see the commodity future of cameras.

I think this move is driven by their very high confidence in the Dragon program. Really, after 6k, 15+ stops, what's left other than lowlight? I mean, where else is there to develop? No one has decided that IMAX isn't enough and made a standard greater than that. Once IMAX levels are hit, I think we'll see improvements in size and weight, then some fancy light field, depth capture stuff, but really... most of what we need will be there and then it's just faster cheaper smaller...

So again, I'm sorry that your (and my) cameras aren't worth what they were yesterday. But I don't think Jim and Jarred took the decision lightly. I think they saw the future.
 
James T Mather said:
Yep, Red will win because it's cheaper. That's for sure.

It's why digital beat film: because it was cheaper. Not because it was better.
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My hope in this is that the next gen of cameras will be better as well. It's theoretically possible... time will tell.
 
James T Mather said:
...as Red so adeptly illustrated today.
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Heck investing in digital *anything* is fool's game. It's a little like buying a new car - it's worth 30% less the next day. Moore's law sees to that. If it's not fully depreciated in 18-24 months, question the wisdom of making the purchase. It's like buying short-dated film stock and not having a fridge to keep it in; use it (and make your money) or lose it!

If you want to contrast this with the value of glass, go out looking for a set of 20 year old Superspeeds!

Mike
 
Zach Gray said:
Why would any company drop prices like this?
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Because they weren't selling enough cameras.

Zach Gray said:
Jim and Jarred are more interested in making cameras than making money...
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Uhm, they will make WAY more at this price point than they did when their cameras cost twice what they did a few hours ago. They are businessmen. They are in business to make money. Lots of it.

Zach Gray said:
... and they see the commodity future of cameras.
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Right, because the real money is in accessories!
 
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