New Monitor Reviews - TVLogic 058W / Odyssey 7Q

[Jason Osterday]

I thought I would open up a thread regarding some reviews on a couple of the newer monitors to release in last few months. The TVLogic in particular hasn't seen much action on these boards and I thought I'd kick off some photos and overviews with it.

I'll update this post in the next few days with photos, on set experience and other insight. Feel free to post your own findings for now.

More to come...

 

[Bobby Holbrook]

Cant wait to hear the results. Thanks

 

[Brad Crawford]

I feel like right out of the gate a 5.5" monitor is too small. 7" seems like the perfect fit for a decent sized onboard or wireless focus monitoring solution.

 

[Max M.]

Yep 5.5 inch is pretty small. But damn the tv logic is a beautiful monitor. It's pretty simple and small with a lovely image. Something like the odessy can be a bit bulky, the tv logic is really low profile simple monitor. And it converts hdmi-sdi and vice versa

 

[Matt Ryan]

Yep 5.5 inch is pretty small. But damn the tv logic is a beautiful monitor. It's pretty simple and small with a lovely image. Something like the odessy can be a bit bulky, the tv logic is really low profile simple monitor. And it converts hdmi-sdi and vice versa

SmallHD Dp7 all day. Less bulk and protruding parts as the Odyssey but has all the cross conversion features, LUT support (import and export), integrated wireless port, etc. I love mine and the OLED screen is amazing.

 

[Jason Osterday]

I wanted to jump back in here with my thoughts after a few shoots. I've had a chance to see these two monitors in different environments to see how they shine (or don't). I also own an Alphatron now and thought I'd add that to this mix since I haven't seen reviews directly comparing these three:

TVLogic 058W -
This thing rocks! Wow what an improvement over the older 5.6". It's tack sharp with its 1080 resolution and really crisp with focus assist and other features turned on. This has been a fav amongst AC's and Op's that I've handed it to. I bought an LPE6 Canon Batt plate for it that stays on and really helps when you have a setup that just needs a couple cheap Canon batts thrown on vs Dtap power. The size is so small that you can sling it off just about any compact setup, but the screen is sharp enough that you can still reasonably pull off it. Last weekend I was using it close to the camera for pulling on a 400mm 2.8 WFO no problem. If you're pulling handheld with a handunit 6-10ft away from the Op then you'll struggle slightly with the 5.5" but the clarity and off-angle are so good that you make up for the size with resolution and no attenuation in screen brightness at 180*. Also, it does get slightly tricky in pure daylight vs the Small HD AC/DP7 but not as bad as the older TV Logics and certainly not debilitating. This thing is well worth the upgrade or purchase if you want a nice Operator/AC monitor that falls under $1500.

Highlights:
- 3 User buttons on top (clutch)
- USB port (Paralinx, etc)
- 1/4-20" holes all 4 sides
- SHARP and good off-access
- Max Bright Button with good NIT for exterior (still suffers slightly in Pure Sunlight)
- Full 1080 HDMI to SDI
- Hoodman 5.6" for RED Touch fits perfect
- This thing gets HOT. Even with the newer Heatsink they've implemented.

 

[Jason Osterday]

Odyssey 7Q -
My primary goal with the Odyssey was to find a larger external monitor that could wear a lot of hats. The Odyssey is like a good PA. It can fold up a C-Stand, wrap up a stinger, open a tent for locations or wrangle extras for AD's but doesn't necessarily mean its earned the title of Grip, Electrician, etc. I say that because the Odyssey is lightweight, but not quite small enough or light enough to be a good candidate for an AC. It's slightly too big for an Op since you have to mount it very far forward for handheld work. Also, it records Prores and many other formats, but doesn't quite replace my Pix Recorder as a solid playback deck. Last but not least, the Odyssey is great for Director's handheld work, but it can be tricky with multi-cam setups. However, when you consider all of those things, it really shines as a $2300 piece in your kit. I would say its most redeeming feature is handheld Director's/Producer's wireless monitor. You can feed two Teradek Bolt's straight into the SDI ports and have an A/B split screen that powers entirely off the one VMount or Sony L Batts. They even make a bracket that fits the Rx's into the back of the monitor. This paired with the Nebtek bracket make this setup incredibly clutch for any 2 cam shows needing a constant SDI no delay feed vs H264 streaming Cube type devices. I like the SmallHD but unless you plan to stick a Decimator on the back of the monitor, you aren't getting side by side Cameras for your Director. The Odyssey doesn't stop there - you can feed 4 cams into the Odyssey for quad screen multi-cam review and STILL output a feed back to village for larger monitors. As a handheld monitor, I would say this kit has already made its money for me. Unfortunately, my high hopes for Op-ing and AC-ing off of it were cut short due to the size/weight/bulk dilemma.

As a recorder, the Odyssey is also hard to beat when it comes to FS700's, Arriraw, or C500's. Your price of entry into those codecs and formats is much higher beyond Convergent Design. When paired with the FS700 you get the option of 10Bit 1080 ProRes HQ downsampled from the full 4K sensor which makes for a great 4:2:2 1080 offline or online depending on how you want to run post. Not to mention the 120/240FPS options and RAW out from a sub 10K camera. Considering an FS700 or FS7 package with a Metabones adapter now runs you $10K with the Odyssey, you're getting a pretty versatile package (4K external, now 4K ProRes, high FPS, 1080 AVCHD internal, lots of lens mounts). The real trick with an external deck though is having reliable transport controls and a snappy interface that quickly adapts playback needs on the fly. The Odyssey is fast being a touchscreen and easy to navigate menu, but it lacks the In/Out cues of a PIX and really requires a zippy touch pen to hit all the right keys quickly to stay ahead of the Director's shouting demands for a certain clip at a certain time. That's why I can't see myself selling the PIX for vid assist. With that said, as an onboard recorder for the Epic, I would certainly take the Odyssey over the PIX. It holds 2 drives vs 1. It's lighter, less power hungry, sharper, bigger screen and easier to mount. Plus all you need is SDI stop/start support with ProRes.

The Odyssey has a ton of potential but it very much reminds me of the Viewfactor approach to products. The "Imagine what it could eventually do" is marred by the fact that these features take months to roll out. In the end, you get a half baked product as users fish through firmware bugs and other oddities that make for an interesting on-set experience. For example, I have yet to successfully get 3 wireless SDI feeds into the Odyssey with 3 Bolts. I know 3 side by side Bolts don't interfere with one another - I've done half a dozen episodes of a TV show now with 5 Rx's on one antenna array with little to no cut outs (6+ weeks worth of filming). It seems the Odyssey doesn't like that 3rd 1080 signal that the Bolt sends out, perhaps due to the difficulty of creating its own genlock between the 3 sources and the first two being wireless means there's likely too much timing variance. I've had plenty success doing 2 wireless and 2 wired cams though. There's also limiting functions with HDMI (timecode, embedded audio, finding the right resolution or signal upon startup) all of which have improved with firmware but I still get a call over walkie every now and then why someone doesn't have picture on the Odyssey. Certain items such as the scopes and waveform do present a great pricepoint for 4K signals considering a proper 4K signal scope analyzer would run you some money.

As for the screen itself, there seems to be noticeable color shifts off-access. I would say 150* in any direction is the most, making it difficult to judge lighting unless you are straight on. The panel is sharp as well but it seems the panel is upscaling poorly because there are significant signs of pixelation occurring up close. When I had this as an onboard pulling focus and operating, I struggled from time to time on longer lenses due to foregrounds appearing sharp when in reality I was soft. The same can be said with wide lenses where a lot of detail from deep DOF causes an almost moire affect to the panel's sharpness. This is when being fed 1080i59.94 signals primarily. I'd have to check again with the Epic's 1080p24 output.

At the end of the day, I'd still take it over the DP7. It properly converts HDMI to SDI (the Small HD can't do 1080i59.94 with proper 24p flags). It has most of the essential menu sets, including LUTs for camera's that need them. It supports 4 inputs and 2 outputs. It records ProRes, ArriRaw, Canon Raw, Sony Raw all in one unit. It's about the same size when mounted on camera and weighs only slightly more. The cage options also make it more versatile for mounting. Also, in my opinion, the Expansion slot stuff on the Small HD doesn't buy you much. It's still HDMI based and doesn't integrate power or signal into the port for cleanup of cables. The Sony L Bracket that holds two Teradek Bolts for the Odyssey is also $50 cheaper and includes the power cables for all accessories and the monitor.

Highlights:
- Large and Bright (but not as bright as the DP7)
- Lots of Codecs supported from various cameras
- NEEDS ProRes LT support
- Great option for Sony FS camera owners
- Pixelation with certain input types. Need to further test.
- Off-Axis color shifts make exposure and lighting judgements difficult when viewing angles aren't optimal.
- Multi-Cam input for Director's and Producer's
- A built in Quad Split saves $ on a decimator
- Great Scope/Waveform tool for DIT carts if you want to compare multi-cam setups
- Too big for small handheld setups (AC or Operator)
- Most versatile sub $2500 monitor on the market
- New Neutrik Power connector is hard to find and doesn't allow for quick hand-made cables
- Stock up on right angle BNC adapters because you'll need them

And Finally...

Alphatron -
I know this has been on the market for some time, but I'd like to throw this into the pot as well with these other two. The Alphatron, in my opinion, should be in any multi cam/format owner's bag that enjoys a good EVF. I love being able to run and gun outside with any camera (or signal depending on how you look at it) with an EVF up to my eye. The Alpha is sharp, easy to flip up and mount in various spots, plus it has an HDMI to SDI converter for all of those DSLR, FS100, C100 setups that need Teradek's, video village or other SDI accessories in the signal path. The eyecup has a nice curvature and the include chamois are a plus. I like that the screen is large enough to pull my eye away briefly while still making out a composition within the diopter. The flip up cup is also rigid enough to stay put while not forcing me to reconfigure my grip on the camera. I wouldn't mind the flip button being slightly relocated to help aid in how I mount the EVF but as long as I'm mindly of that 1/4-20" hole it's fine. My one beef with the Alphatron is that they don't have the same peaking options as the TVLogic. I'd love a firmware update that supports better focus assist and a similar menu layout to the TVLogic 058W. Also, holding the user buttons should bring up the available options vs having to dig into a menu. For under $1500 I think the Alphatron is a great buy if you need SDI and better build quality vs the Cineroid and Small HD DP4.

Highlights:
- 4 User Buttons
- Sharp for 4" (have tested with 300+mm lenses and various lighting)
- Good build quality and built in L Battery mount
- Now includes a Dtap cable and a few Chamois
- Easy flip up mechanism that stays, no need for additional Loupe
- 1/4-20 mounts aren't threaded deep enough for certain quick release mounts such as Zacuto (needs a washer)
- Mini HDMI is a bummer
- Loop out on both HDMI and SDI
- Menu text is small and not as cleanly laid out as TVLogic's

I hope that gives some insight. I'll see if I can post a few pictures such as Daylight, Color, and Sharpness comparisons.

 

[Scott Pultz]

Hi Jason,

I appreciate your posts on these displays. Nice to see some non-gimbal talk

Any experience with the Marshall LCD71MD? It is also a 1080p screen but larger than the TV Logic and has a higher speced output. I'm wondering if it would be easier to pull focus on this due to the larger screen.

Scott

 

[Mark Toia]

We had 6 of them used inside of the cabin of the Russian Arm vehicle.
All worked fine.

 

[Scott Pultz]

We had 6 of them used inside of the cabin of the Russian Arm vehicle.
All worked fine.

Which display? LCD71MD?