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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

New MacPro predictions? Hopes? Fears?

I may have been wrong in my belief that Apple will move MacOS to ARM.

+) The internal reorganisation of Apple has made MacOs an extracurricular knowledge requirement for some of the iOS team.
+) The MacOS team gets at most 10% of the Apples development resources.
+) The ARM references 'discovered' in Sierra ALSO include other architectures, and were in previous MacOS versions (not sure why they didn't explicitly check before!)

AJ
 
With limited pure MacOS Developement resources - I would guess:

The majority of effort will be placed on productionising APFS (Apple File System):
+) Ensuring it is defect free
+) Re-architecting Kernel / Programs designed for 70MB/s over to SSDs that work at 3+ GB/s.
+) Ensuring that OS protection from tampering is maximised
+) Rolling this it to All Apple devices (From the Watch to the legacy products like the MacPro 2013)

That AMDs Vega 14nm (GloFdry?) GPU family & optimisations will be getting be just cause for midnight oil burning:
+) Tuning for 5K / Groundwork for 8K
+) Reworking of code frameworks for more efficient P3 / Rec2020 formats

Working hard on Voice control
+) Hopefully ... deeper integration / more usable than what exists today.

AJ
 
AMD

+) I don't believe POLARIS has the Grunt that we / Apple needed for a desktop.
+) I do believe a dual VEGA will have sufficent grunt to meet '8K' desktop needs.

If the earliest that AMD will release a dual Vega is Q3 this year, then that is the earliest that High-end Mac system can be created.

If by some magic Intel (100% profit driven bean counter company) allow 10nm Xeons out the door - they will be lower power (peak) than the existing ones in the trashcan. Likewise for the Vega - much smaller footprint and under 300W (I believe).

Heat dissipation of an iMac with 500W would, I speculate, push the noise levels above what Apple deem acceptable.

I am guessing therefore that Apple will need an external box cooling system, or... new-new Mac Pro to silently house and cool such a powerful system.

With the freed up space - It could also include a wireless charging system (phone, mouse, keyboard), a boat load of SSD, and if AMD play ball (or tube?), the ability to upgrade to GLoFlo 7nm Navi in 2019.

AJ
 
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Hmm, depends on fan design (do they use fans now) and size

So, with a bigger dual card NAC you can include a bigger taller Dan and maintain noise lwveks maybe

Been looking at that MSI systen, and they scrapped the dual sli you cards, and replaced it with a 1080 (now gas HDMI 2 ports too). You could probably uograde the MXM card/s and prixessir, but last years model the components were tricky buried, haven't read anybody trying it even. However, you gave the new Nvidia gpu's presumably onntje card, titan x I think I might have seen, and Quadro. A shame an upgradable xaee like that isn't available.

I'm thinking of going blade, or making a compact care likevI was talking about. The MSI isn't that bad in price compared to a MacPro, but it is all custom parts, if it breaks you have to get them fixed. But I could go cheaper with a case like that which used standard parts.
 
Antony Newman said:
AMD
+) I don't believe POLARIS has the Grunt that we / Apple needed for a desktop.
+) I do believe a dual VEGA will have sufficent grunt to meet '8K' desktop needs.

If the earliest that AMD will release a dual Vega is Q3 this year, then that is the earliest that High-end Mac system can be created.

If by some magic Intel (100% profit driven bean counter company) allow 10nm Xeons out the door - they will be lower power (peak) than the existing ones in the trashcan. Likewise for the Vega - much smaller footprint and under 300W (I believe).

Heat dissipation of an iMac with 500W would, I speculate, push the noise levels above what Apple deem acceptable. AJ
Click to expand...

I suspect this is where they're at, waiting for AMD Vega cards and hoping to get 10nm Xeons in there to cut TDP. Sadly, I also suspect they will simply throttle the GPUs to stay inside their thermal envelope. There's also a possibility they could allow higher fan noise under heavy load with the knowledge that 90+% of the time, most users wouldn't push it that hard. Yes, that kind of thinking likely contributed to the heat related issues of render wonkiness suffered by the current trashcans, but, sadly, I don't think Apple is ready to change the casing form factor. It's also possible that the version of the Vega cards designed for the trashcan's non-standard sizing could be engineered to better leverage the internal cooling tower design of the trashcan via custom heat sink design, etc.

I'm also hopeful that subtle tweaks to the cooling performance are still possible in the cylinder form factor. Yes, there may be all of two engineers in the entire Apple universe still assigned to such things, but engineering is an iterative process and over the last 3 years they may have devised some clever ways to optimize the basic design that wouldn't raise noise levels more than a couple decibels. We've certainly seen RED engineering optimize a number of things over the years to squeeze more performance out of the same form factors. Yes, I realize Apple may be like Janice in Accounting... ;-)

Cheers - #19
 
The present design maybe doomed until they go to a next generation lower hest computing technology. When they hit 7nm the power savings per cycle will top out, andbIvsaw talk of 7nm. I don't know what it is for GA, but GA s supposed tonbe double the speed per size. So eventually, they have to deal with more heat soon enough. So they will have to go a future Phi version, where alnormal cores are mixed with phi cores. Dropimg and changing a few things should see a few power savings into next decade. So, the answer is a bigger case that takes at least two cards, standard cards preferably. The current can can continue at the same time but will we see anymore than 50-100% improvement usingnstandsrd silicon and the other improvements mentioned, under that thermal envelope?

I think I read that the MSI unit scrapped the second SLI card due to power or thermal issues too.
 
Just thinking of the artic cooler media PC today, the one that looks like my Nvidia Shield TV. I realised that you could make a replaceable GPU module that attached along the back of a stand up case that shape. Actually, you could use a standard card in the module with an external backplain, or the laptop version with the backplain as the stand. Now, Apple could do something like that with the Mini, even with their Mac Pro card. Instead, nothing much.
 
In Dec 2016 - Intel finally 'worked out' their 10nm yield issues - and are currently setting up the fix in the production fab in Israel.

The Intel bean counters have some concern that AMD 'might' be a threat - if they can offer a 32 core Naples x86 chip that is price competitive (ie cheap!), and dent the 99% of the data centre market that Intel currently has.

Intel's 10nm ovens are going to be "Data centre First" which means:
+) Big data-centre chips with their CPU connected with lego (EMIB) to hardware accelerators INSIDE the chip.
+) Smaller chips for mobile that can't compete unless they are low power.

Intel's EMIB is currently very expensive (~40% more) for them to construct - and will reduce their profit margin from 60% to 40% for chips that use the technology. It does mean that a Huge data centre chip can be constructed (and look like patch work jeans).

With Intel's 14nm++ improvement in their older technology (where they adaptively rewire the density of the CPU in places to give critical transistors a bit of breathing space when needed) - it wouldn't surprise me if Intel 10nm gets pushed into the future until there is a credible threat from AMD.

Hypothesis:
+) Why did Apple choose AMD over Nvidia for GPU? (Price, OpenCl support, Competiton to avoid a GPU monopoly)
+) If a 32 core AMD is released in 2017 Q3 what would be the benefit of Apple switching to AMD.
- Lower Price : We can be certain of this.
- A chip that performs as well as a current 24 core Xeon (at least 2x the 12c nMP)
- 128 x PCIe lanes (i.e. About 3 times Intel)
- more money for AMD to plough into Dual Vega (and in to the Black)
- more of AMDs money to go to (privately held) GF, and who's 7nm fab will probably come on line sooner

I don't know if Apple want the headache of a 'niche' product that might only sell 10 million units over its entire (5 year?) lifetime - but it could well be that AMD's resurgence displaces Intel (in Desktops)

if AMD can afford to switch to TSMC 7nm designs at this end of this year (they have to pay GF a penalty for each non GF chip they cook), 2018 GPUs and CPUs from AMD could be a better long term bet than Intel for Desktop use.

And for Laptop use, a single 10nm Apple mobile chip could augment Intel x86 in low power modes / hardware acceleration for voice interaction.

AJ
 
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Ben Scott said:
My prediction is that it will be hugely overpriced and underspecced, with fewer of the ports we need and less scope for upgrading.
Click to expand...

Wish they would just swallow their pride and make a real computer again. Same case, make it space grey, done.
 
Antony. A Naples Mac Mini with Vega cores :)

But, can Naples be programmed to be useful as a good workstation CPU?

Looks like they have explored combining Naples and Vega.

I mispelled Naples I'm Google search, and it asked me: 'Did you mean: 32 core Apples...' :)
 
Jarek Zabczynski said:
Wish they would just swallow their pride and make a real computer again. Same case, make it space grey, done.
Click to expand...


^
This.

A workstation needs simplicity. And a larger, self-contained case is the way to offer that. They already nailed what it needs to be with the cMP ten years ago. Hopefully they've learnt something from the failure of the trashcan.
 
You mean they copied what PC cases did for decades. Really inventive of them. :). But it works better, as well as the blade systems.
 
I predict whatever they release, they will always get the same treatment from both sides of the coin and life goes on :)
 
Nicholas Croft said:
At the very least they could meet us 'halfway'. Something like:

https://www.dan-cases.com/

With the motherboard ON TOP, and space for two (2) - full length, upgradeable - gpu's underneath.
Click to expand...

I want the main board inline with the cards. I'm still tossing up wherever to do it. I'm thinking of addressing dimensional wastage in the gaps. If it comes, I'll consider how many cards, as there are not any substantial skinny main board standards, so once I factor in low noise cooling system height, I'll have to see how many cards fit. Better than anything Apple has offered. If I make it big enough a full length mainboard with all the extra could fit, you could put a 65 inch 'monitor' :) on top of it. I'm seeing something here. Kickstarter worthy. I understand that the tax department is looking at implementing a category for crowd funding investors in exchange share ownership. I think that is very fair.
 
Nicholas, why don't you give it a go. The case has already been sent out. But where are the two GPU cards?

Its good to see they are developing filtering for the air flow. This is my preferred solution in my own open designs. Apart from bugs and baby geckos getting in, filth just builds up, because it isn't vertical it might collect extra filth (they say dust, but its the fibers that can catch alight).

This case format would be good vertically mounted, it sorts of does what my older vertical design aimed for differently.
 
It's just too much like, "pay no attention to what we do, or rather have not done, but rather what we say". A lot have left the fold and I'll join them if he doesn't make good on this in the next few months.
 
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