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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

New Mac Pro on the way? (Really, this time...)

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i wish they'd just release it already...at this rate we will be editing off tablets and watches before a new one comes out!
 
Paul Harb said:
Last time Apple said "something really different" we got FCPX....Apple's idea of different used to be exciting...now the reaction is..."uh oh"
Click to expand...

Bob Gundu said:
Paul, are you really going to go there again?
Click to expand...

Matt Gottshalk said:
He is right.
Click to expand...

Ian Laurie said:
Correction, that was alot of peoples reaction. not everyones. I personally am not worried in the least about the design of the new mac pro, just thrilled there is one coming, and curious to see what it is... much like i was with fcpx.
Click to expand...

Nothing wrong with FCP-X. The only issue with it was the way Apple went about its introduction. However Apple was also swift to address the vast majority of the concerns and FCP-X as it is today is mosdef a wonderful piece of SW. I applaud Apple for boldly challenging many preconceived notions and stereotypes and constantly pushing the envelop. Anyone who says "Apple has given up on pro market" has clearly been hiding under a rock for the past few years. Yes, the Mac Pro has had a rocky ride. But we can't ignore what Apple has done with the laptops and the iMac. In a way similar to RED, they have brought amazing work-horse machines to the reach of many, for whom the Mac Pro was out of reach. The current iMacs and laptops can handle our workflows like nothing else out there in their price range. Never mind the stability and longevity of these platforms. How many of you with your "custom" PCs have a tower that is 5 years old and can handle the latest OS, drivers, etc...? FCP-X redefines the way we edit. It might be at first very alien to the veteran FCP users. But everyone I know that have made the jump is more then satisfied. With the recent moves by Adobe the Apple platform has never felt better. And with the new Mac Pro (that will redefine how we think about workstations in a similar way as FCP-X did for editing) - I for one could not be happier to have stood by Apple all these years...

:sifone: Peter
 
I'm a pro & I use FCPX almost exclusively now for edits - already in the high 6 figures since January - So I'm sticking with FCPX, and I'm looking forward to whatever new machine Apple bring out.

I'm also pretty happy that with a TBolt box linking a hard drive and RedRocket to a MacBook Pro I can edit native REDRAW in a hotel room in HongKong to show the client a couple hours later in New York. So In the end I guess the MacPro Tower / or whatever form factor it takes is becoming less relevant by the day.

I find it kind of strange that for a group of people who wholeheartedly embrace the change in workflow brought about by RED - are so resistant to any change in post workflow...
 
xserve, shake, color beg to differ... I agree I like the stability, that is why I use their products, but the reality is a lot of pros have legitimate reasons to be irritated. Its more then just the lack of updates for the mac pro (and logic), and the fcpx introduction PR nightmare...its been happening for quite some time pre fcpx...


personally I use whatever the post house or the production wants me to as far as personal preference goes I could care less. lately I am Avid based almost exclusively because of group environments

also if this new mac pro doesn't have expandability inside, how can we run the new red rocket x? thunderbolt is saturated by old rockets, buying a new rocket x is probably meaningless without having a 16x pci 3 slot... unless this mac pro has thunderbolt two the new rocket is not going to run at full speed


Peter Majtan said:
Nothing wrong with FCP-X. The only issue with it was the way Apple went about its introduction. However Apple was also swift to address the vast majority of the concerns and FCP-X as it is today is mosdef a wonderful piece of SW. I applaud Apple for boldly challenging many preconceived notions and stereotypes and constantly pushing the envelop. Anyone who says "Apple has given up on pro market" has clearly been hiding under a rock for the past few years. Yes, the Mac Pro has had a rocky ride. But we can't ignore what Apple has done with the laptops and the iMac. In a way similar to RED, they have brought amazing work-horse machines to the reach of many, for whom the Mac Pro was out of reach. The current iMacs and laptops can handle our workflows like nothing else out there in their price range. Never mind the stability and longevity of these platforms. How many of you with your "custom" PCs have a tower that is 5 years old and can handle the latest OS, drivers, etc...? FCP-X redefines the way we edit. It might be at first very alien to the veteran FCP users. But everyone I know that have made the jump is more then satisfied. With the recent moves by Adobe the Apple platform has never felt better. And with the new Mac Pro (that will redefine how we think about workstations in a similar way as FCP-X did for editing) - I for one could not be happier to have stood by Apple all these years...

:sifone: Peter
Click to expand...
 
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Even if Apple finally releases a new Mac Pro after all this time, do you really want to stick with a hardware platform that gets such infrequent updates and is always behind on video card support? I know lots of zealots will step up and say yes (Hi Terry!), but you really have to wonder how much you can expect from Apple in the future when they obviously are not committed to this market segment. Are you ready for another multi-year wait between updates? Apple throws a bone only when they feel like it, and that is not often - their focus is obviously on the segment where they can move the greatest volume, ie: mainstream consumers, who get must-have new models annually or faster in an attempt to encourage obsolescence and rake in more dollars (the Canon of the computer industry), but that's another subject.

The power of Apple marketing is an amazing thing to me: any other manufacturer that treated a customer segment with such obvious disregard would have lost its following years ago, but the cult of Apple is so strong that acolytes are willing to stand by no matter how long the wait, and step up to Apples's defense whenever contrary words are spoken. Apple has become a consumer products company; anxiously waiting for a glance in this direction strikes me as unhealthy devotion. Obviously some disagree, or else this thread would not exist, but I can't help but read with a sense of wonder.

Tim out... I'd better go put on my flame-retardant suit.
 
Brian Merlen said:
also if this new mac pro doesn't have expandability inside, how can we run the new red rocket x? thunderbolt is saturated by old rockets, buying a new rocket x is probably meaningless without having a 16x pci 3 slot... unless this mac pro has thunderbolt two the new rocket is not going to run at full speed
Click to expand...

What makes you think a brand new design would still use the current incarnation of Thunderbolt?

Personally, I don't understand the resistance to a new design paradigm here. Most of the people who seem to love their card-and-slot towers are also the first to complain that there aren't enough slots. This has always been the case and will always be the case. Going to a high speed interconnect that is essentially a bus extender eliminates the biggest single problem of card based bus designs, and that is, yes, the limited number of available slots. Besides, it's entirely possible - and likely - that one of the first connected modules will be an expansion chassis for legacy cards. The rumored new design also potentially brings portability, a smaller size and weight factor, smaller power requirements, fewer cooling issues to solve, and other benefits. The only real downside I can see is a possible reduction in RAM expandability, but quite frankly, Apple is pretty smart about these things, and RAM will continue to get denser, smaller, and faster.

Resistance is futile. Apple is going to do what they're going to do. Or not. But as long as it works and works well, what exactly is the downside?
 
Tim Morten said:
Even if Apple finally releases a new Mac Pro after all this time, do you really want to stick with a hardware platform that gets such infrequent updates and is always behind on video card support? I know lots of zealots will step up and say yes (Hi Terry!), but you really have to wonder how much you can expect from Apple in the future when they obviously are not committed to this market segment. Are you ready for another multi-year wait between updates? Apple throws a bone only when they feel like it, and that is not often - their focus is obviously on the segment where they can move the greatest volume, ie: mainstream consumers, who get must-have new models annually or faster in an attempt to encourage obsolescence and rake in more dollars (the Canon of the computer industry), but that's another subject.

The power of Apple marketing is an amazing thing to me: any other manufacturer that treated a customer segment with such obvious disregard would have lost its following years ago, but the cult of Apple is so strong that acolytes are willing to stand by no matter how long the wait, and step up to Apples's defense whenever contrary words are spoken. Apple has become a consumer products company; anxiously waiting for a glance in this direction strikes me as unhealthy devotion. Obviously some disagree, or else this thread would not exist, but I can't help but read with a sense of wonder.

Tim out... I'd better go put on my flame-retardant suit.
Click to expand...

So...

With Avid's history of trying to pull out of the Mac platform, letting products die, Adobe's history of letting some products go, not developing for Mac anymore, and after a quarter of promising perpetual licenses will continue to be sold suddenly change their mind and only let new versions of their programs be rental only... Apple is hardly the only one who has done some missteps.

And about Apple's committment...

With FCPX they had a BAD introduction, I'll give you that. I was one of the people who asked for a refund. At the same time, they were willing to make a completely new program from scratch, a completely new NLE developed in-house. It must have costed them a lot of bucks in man-hours (even though it is peanuts in comparison with what they earn), and they have developed a pretty aggressive update-schedule.
You don't do that for a market you are not interested in.
Ah, yes, making a 64-bit NLE, with 4K support... color sync... roles... That's not for consumers. They don't even know what 4K is.
Yes, FCPX maybe was released to early, and it's still immature in a couple of ways. But anyone who has learned it well, will tell you that once you get the hang of it, it's difficult going back to other NLE's. In a lot of respects (proxy workflow, keyword organisation, metadata, speed, ...) the program is so ahead of others, it's mind boggling. And at other times, it is way behind. But Apple's update schedule has shown that they make it better and more complete with each update. Again, it DOES show committment.

About the Mac Pro...
Yes, it is pretty sad how long we had to wait for an update (well, we still are). But, I hope (and think) that their new Mac Pro will show us why we waited so long. Tim Cook said at the recent D11 that they would make a new product at the USA, something they have been waiting for a long time to release because they wanted to get everything right. I think it will be the new Mac Pro. I think, like with FCPX, sometimes, if you try new things, you are getting a disadvantage first. Yes, the previous version isn't long updated. Yes, your new product has some things that can be better. But in the grand scheme, you are trying new things, which is more than can be said for most other PC builders.

So here you have the company that, not going back that far:
- were the first to put professional color correction tools in people's hands (Color)
- were the first to put the Thunderbolt connector in their computers, which they co-developed or at least had some role in the development
- were the first to build a computer with a Retina screen, together with software that was working great with it (their OSX updates and FCPX, Aperture, ...)

you are saying: they are not commited, and should not be trusted. I get where you are coming from, but for every bad example, they did something amazing too, and I'm not sure if the track record of other hardware-or software builders is so much better, to be honest...
 
M Most said:
What makes you think a brand new design would still use the current incarnation of Thunderbolt?

Personally, I don't understand the resistance to a new design paradigm here. Most of the people who seem to love their card-and-slot towers are also the first to complain that there aren't enough slots. This has always been the case and will always be the case. Going to a high speed interconnect that is essentially a bus extender eliminates the biggest single problem of card based bus designs, and that is, yes, the limited number of available slots. Besides, it's entirely possible - and likely - that one of the first connected modules will be an expansion chassis for legacy cards. The rumored new design also potentially brings portability, a smaller size and weight factor, smaller power requirements, fewer cooling issues to solve, and other benefits. The only real downside I can see is a possible reduction in RAM expandability, but quite frankly, Apple is pretty smart about these things, and RAM will continue to get denser, smaller, and faster.

Resistance is futile. Apple is going to do what they're going to do. Or not. But as long as it works and works well, what exactly is the downside?
Click to expand...

I'm with you on this one. I still remember your post from a couple years ago on the subject. Leaving the confinements of the tower design structure behind has a lot of potential merit. I hope Apple does pursue this course because I think with creativity on our end we will be able to take advantage of the more flexible package.
 
"The one thing I keep hearing over and over again from friends who would know is...the one word I keep hearing is that some of the stuff they're going to show is "polarizing". " - John Gruber on this years WWDC.

I wonder if that refers to the Mac Pro? Speculating of course...
 
Browsing through some of the rumor pages I ran into this. It made me chuckle.

acQkfXM.jpg

(The original is just the wave with the X)

I really do hope they mention at least something about the future of the MacPro, even if it's just confirmation that they are putting it down. Speculation has gone for too long, either finish breaking our hearts already, or make us fall in love with the plans Apple has for pros and creatives. We'll see
 
Brian Merlen said:
...also if this new mac pro doesn't have expandability inside, how can we run the new red rocket x? thunderbolt is saturated by old rockets, buying a new rocket x is probably meaningless without having a 16x pci 3 slot... unless this mac pro has thunderbolt two the new rocket is not going to run at full speed
Click to expand...

Everyone seems to ignore the obvious and simplest solution. Thunderbolt has linear scalability. The new Thunderbolt2 is perfect example. You can simply have a main chassis hosting the CPU, RAM and your standard I/Os with a bunch of TB ports. Then have a expansion chassis with another bunch of TB ports. connect the two with 4 or 8 TB cables and there goes the bottleneck. Or, if you want to keep the config small and bottlenecks are not your concern - connect just a compact expansion with single TB cable...

The darkest spot is under the candle...

:sifone: Peter
 
Mathieu Ghekiere said:
So...

With Avid's history of trying to pull out of the Mac platform, letting products die, Adobe's history of letting some products go, not developing for Mac anymore, and after a quarter of promising perpetual licenses will continue to be sold suddenly change their mind and only let new versions of their programs be rental only... Apple is hardly the only one who has done some missteps.

And about Apple's committment...

With FCPX they had a BAD introduction, I'll give you that. I was one of the people who asked for a refund. At the same time, they were willing to make a completely new program from scratch, a completely new NLE developed in-house. It must have costed them a lot of bucks in man-hours (even though it is peanuts in comparison with what they earn), and they have developed a pretty aggressive update-schedule.
You don't do that for a market you are not interested in.
Ah, yes, making a 64-bit NLE, with 4K support... color sync... roles... That's not for consumers. They don't even know what 4K is.
Yes, FCPX maybe was released to early, and it's still immature in a couple of ways. But anyone who has learned it well, will tell you that once you get the hang of it, it's difficult going back to other NLE's. In a lot of respects (proxy workflow, keyword organisation, metadata, speed, ...) the program is so ahead of others, it's mind boggling. And at other times, it is way behind. But Apple's update schedule has shown that they make it better and more complete with each update. Again, it DOES show committment.

About the Mac Pro...
Yes, it is pretty sad how long we had to wait for an update (well, we still are). But, I hope (and think) that their new Mac Pro will show us why we waited so long. Tim Cook said at the recent D11 that they would make a new product at the USA, something they have been waiting for a long time to release because they wanted to get everything right. I think it will be the new Mac Pro. I think, like with FCPX, sometimes, if you try new things, you are getting a disadvantage first. Yes, the previous version isn't long updated. Yes, your new product has some things that can be better. But in the grand scheme, you are trying new things, which is more than can be said for most other PC builders.

So here you have the company that, not going back that far:
- were the first to put professional color correction tools in people's hands (Color)
- were the first to put the Thunderbolt connector in their computers, which they co-developed or at least had some role in the development
- were the first to build a computer with a Retina screen, together with software that was working great with it (their OSX updates and FCPX, Aperture, ...)

you are saying: they are not commited, and should not be trusted. I get where you are coming from, but for every bad example, they did something amazing too, and I'm not sure if the track record of other hardware-or software builders is so much better, to be honest...
Click to expand...


Really? You aar going to use Color to show Apple's "commitment"? That is laughable.

Tombstones.jpg
 
Joseph Coleman said:
http://www.macobserver.com/tmo/article/an-interesting-image-of-a-new-mac-pro-is-circulating
Saw this on facebook
Click to expand...

I'd buy that if it was real. I think thunderbolt 2 is a given, the question is, how many independent ports and buses will it have? 4 would be the minimum required, basically substituting internal pcie2 slots. As for the dual GPU, it doesn't seem big enough to accept replacement internal GPU cards, which would mean built to order options (not changeable) or a new format completely (unlikely)

Anyway, with 4 TB2 slots (or more), fast enough internal GPUs with possibility of external ones, and 64GB of ram capable, this would be a immediate buy.
 
Ummmm....No. That is clearly false and ridiculous, but still fun. Ha. I believe no new MacPro announcement today, Cook said late 2013, which to me means no sooner than October, almost 4 months away. My guess/fantasy is: new MacPro's announced with FCP 10.9 or 11 (with corresponding Motion and Compressor updates), Logic Pro X (which integrates with FCP X), Aperture 4, sometime in September. Book it, but don't bet it.:lipsrsealed:
 
Eric Emerick said:
Ummmm....No. That is clearly false and ridiculous, but still fun. Ha. I believe no new MacPro announcement today, Cook said late 2013, which to me means no sooner than October, almost 4 months away. My guess/fantasy is: new MacPro's announced with FCP 10.9 or 11 (with corresponding Motion and Compressor updates), Logic Pro X (which integrates with FCP X), Aperture 4, sometime in September. Book it, but don't bet it.:lipsrsealed:
Click to expand...

Cook has never said "late 2013". What he said was:

"Franz,

Thanks for your email. Our Pro customers like you are really important to us. Although we didn’t have a chance to talk about a new Mac Pro at today’s event, don’t worry as we’re working on something really great for later next year. We also updated the current model today.

We’ve been continuing to update Final Cut Pro X with revolutionary pro features like industry leading multi-cam support and we just updated Aperture with incredible new image adjustment features.

We also announced a MacBook Pro with a Retina Display that is a great solution for many pros.

Tim"

"later" next year is not the same as "late" next year, especially when it follows "today" in the same sentence that was written in 2012...
Then you have the official Apple spokesman comment:

"Updates to add email from Apple CEO Tim Cook to a customer re: Mac Pro. Also Apple corrects to say desktop updates for 2013 applies only to Mac Pro and not iMac. Apple said today that it is working on new models and designs for its Mac Pro desktop that will be released in 2013."

Again no mention of "late" 2013 in both comments...

Just FYI...

PS: I also believe that image is fake. My reason? Insufficient cooling to house dual GPU and some major CPU + RAM update inside a solid aluminum case ala Mac Mini...

:sifone: Peter
 
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