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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

New Mac Pro Announced at WWDC! - It's OFFICIAL!

Terry VerHaar said:
If you look at the presentation on the Apple site, you will see a lot of "up to..." Example being "up to 12 cores," "up to 7 teraflops..." - I think this strongly indicates more than one model.
Click to expand...
of course there will be more then one....just seems to me that this will be a good, better, best thing....more like the MacBooks....
the big question for me is, how will it handle red raw files? do i still need a rocket? what is the difference between the top of the line Mac Pro and my retina withe external rocket via TB?
 
M Most said:
Bruce, I'm really surprised at all of your comments on this thread. You're usually a lot more reasonable and a lot more reasoned in your thinking. But on this, you seem to have made up your mind far in advance of the reality of an actual shipping product. Even Apple was very careful to call this a "Sneak Preview." In our industry, that usually means the sound is not final, the visual effects are temporary, and the color has not been done. To judge a movie based on those things is not a good idea for laypeople. And to judge a radically redesigned computer at that stage is equally as presumptuous.

As far as video and GPU, my guess (and my guesses have been pretty good up to this point...) is that by the time this ships, there might be an NVidia option available, either directly from Apple or from others. Apple has clearly sanctioned a new form factor for the GPU's in this machine, and probably a new connector as a part of that. Giving that spec to Nvidia and its manufacturing partners would not be much of stretch. Personally, I don't understand so many people here being so attached to cards. PCIe cards completely suck in every way. They have all of their components exposed, making them fragile. They are static sensitive. They have many connectors that are easily damaged, and have to be reseated from time to time for no apparent reason. They cannot be miniaturized since they have to conform to a legacy form factor. They require more and more power and produce more and more heat. They often require drivers, and that leads to incompatibilities with new OS's and other issues. The fact is that one needs to look at real world cases to see whether Apple's new approach is really limiting anything. For my purposes, most towers contain cards to do only a few things: GPUs, storage HBA's, storage I/O (eSata and USB3, usually, but often SAS or Fibre Channel as well), and video I/O, especially SDI video. So based on that, let's review. GPU: in the new Mac Pro, that's a moot point, although options would be nice and, as I said, will most likely be offered, albeit not necessarily on the ship date. Storage I/O: No longer needed, as TB2 is faster than any current storage interconnect and still allows adapters to legacy interconnects. USB3: Included. Video I/O: Thunderbolt also acts as a video transport and supports larger resolutions than any existing Mac compatible video card. And for video type monitors, there's also HDMI 1.4 built in. SDI Video: Well, there's already the TBolt connected Blackmagic Ultra Studio 4K for less than $1000 that does more than any existing PCIe card, and works with anything that supports Blackmagic video cards, which now includes everything from Avid to Smoke to Adobe to Resolve.

I'm not going to say the new machine is for everyone, although that might eventually turn out to be the case. But what I see is one hell of an innovative design, a bump in performance that's not limited only to the hardware (or did you not watch the part of the keynote that talked about OS X and the performance improvements they've worked on implementing?), a potential end to legacy PCI type cards (and as far as I'm concerned, that is a very, very good thing, not the horrible thing you and others seem to want to make it out to be), and an invitation to third party manufacturers to up their game as well, even though that wasn't talked about today because it was only a "Sneak Preview," not a product rollout. I think you need to sit back, look at the big picture, let go of any prejudices you might have based on personal investment, and look at this in terms of a technology exercise. You might find a lot to like.
Click to expand...
thank you!
 
paul schefz said:
of course there will be more then one....just seems to me that this will be a good, better, best thing....more like the MacBooks....
the big question for me is, how will it handle red raw files? do i still need a rocket? what is the difference between the top of the line Mac Pro and my retina withe external rocket via TB?
Click to expand...

I guess I misunderstood what you were saying when you said "not so sure about that..." in response to my suggestion that there would be more than one model. :huh:
 
I'm happy I've waited. I'm not a post house and all major CommerciLs I shoot or direct I end up taking them to colorists and compositors, so this would be for my own personal 4K content and projects. The Retina Macbook Pro is already working great with my rocket in a Sonnet enclosure. I imagine the Rocket X with this will be equaly amazing. Day one purchase for me if they keep current pricing. I expect worldwide delays for this since its made in USA. Also hope that sticker doesnt bump up the price !
 
M Most said:
Bruce, I'm really surprised at all of your comments on this thread. You're usually a lot more reasonable and a lot more reasoned in your thinking. But on this, you seem to have made up your mind far in advance of the reality of an actual shipping product. Even Apple was very careful to call this a "Sneak Preview." In our industry, that usually means the sound is not final, the visual effects are temporary, and the color has not been done. To judge a movie based on those things is not a good idea for laypeople. And to judge a radically redesigned computer at that stage is equally as presumptuous.

As far as video and GPU, my guess (and my guesses have been pretty good up to this point...) is that by the time this ships, there might be an NVidia option available, either directly from Apple or from others. Apple has clearly sanctioned a new form factor for the GPU's in this machine, and probably a new connector as a part of that. Giving that spec to Nvidia and its manufacturing partners would not be much of stretch. Personally, I don't understand so many people here being so attached to cards. PCIe cards completely suck in every way. They have all of their components exposed, making them fragile. They are static sensitive. They have many connectors that are easily damaged, and have to be reseated from time to time for no apparent reason. They cannot be miniaturized since they have to conform to a legacy form factor. They require more and more power and produce more and more heat. They often require drivers, and that leads to incompatibilities with new OS's and other issues. The fact is that one needs to look at real world cases to see whether Apple's new approach is really limiting anything. For my purposes, most towers contain cards to do only a few things: GPUs, storage HBA's, storage I/O (eSata and USB3, usually, but often SAS or Fibre Channel as well), and video I/O, especially SDI video. So based on that, let's review. GPU: in the new Mac Pro, that's a moot point, although options would be nice and, as I said, will most likely be offered, albeit not necessarily on the ship date. Storage I/O: No longer needed, as TB2 is faster than any current storage interconnect and still allows adapters to legacy interconnects. USB3: Included. Video I/O: Thunderbolt also acts as a video transport and supports larger resolutions than any existing Mac compatible video card. And for video type monitors, there's also HDMI 1.4 built in. SDI Video: Well, there's already the TBolt connected Blackmagic Ultra Studio 4K for less than $1000 that does more than any existing PCIe card, and works with anything that supports Blackmagic video cards, which now includes everything from Avid to Smoke to Adobe to Resolve.

I'm not going to say the new machine is for everyone, although that might eventually turn out to be the case. But what I see is one hell of an innovative design, a bump in performance that's not limited only to the hardware (or did you not watch the part of the keynote that talked about OS X and the performance improvements they've worked on implementing?), a potential end to legacy PCI type cards (and as far as I'm concerned, that is a very, very good thing, not the horrible thing you and others seem to want to make it out to be), and an invitation to third party manufacturers to up their game as well, even though that wasn't talked about today because it was only a "Sneak Preview," not a product rollout. I think you need to sit back, look at the big picture, let go of any prejudices you might have based on personal investment, and look at this in terms of a technology exercise. You might find a lot to like.
Click to expand...

Mike, good points, I'm with you. This looks like so much good thinking has gone into the new design, I'm looking forward to seeing what eventually ships.
 
Man this thread is such a Cool aid drinking geek tech out !

I'm not that into the tech end of the biz as the other end (Hah ! & Im on a hardware thread)....so I i couldn't care less about Yoda-bytes, gidget-flops or barra-cudas ; )

But what I care about is the creative end, I'm interested in something that does the job & allows maximum creative thru put.

So whilst all the heavy Tech hitters are on this thread , some basic questions from a none tech type
1) Will this beast handle 6k ?
2) Can It handle "Smoke' ...smoothly ?
3) Can Da Vinci 10 run on it
4) Can it handle 4K natively (as we know it, not some apple variety )?
5) Where does this leave Redrocket ?
6) Do i need additional hardware to run external monitoring
7) How much more performance does this system offer compared to fully spec'd Retina or even I Mac's

And finally as off right now I'm going to steal Phils "Lava lamp" idea. This is exactly the sort of 3rd party add on that will sell in huge numbers because it is perfect for us creative types who wear black skivvies whilst editing, enhancing the positive aura of the edit suite.
 
on another sidenote; it totally reminds me of the Bose speaker of the 21st anniversary Mac…
I've worked on that machine for a few months during an traineeship - so I can clearly remember (very interesting machine; one of the first TFT/Flat-screen Desktops, incredible sound and nice built-in radio!);
http://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/TAM_wikimedia.jpg

can't deny some similarities ;)
 
Peter Majtan said:
The internal interconnect of the interfaces in the new Mac Pro is based around PCIe v3, not 2 - and the specs for the TB technology is for the whole tech, not just the "cable". There is a reason why Intel is controlling so tightly any implementation / certification of the TB. And, as I have pointed out earlier, the main issue here seems to be RRX, which I highly doubt would be slowed down even by a single TB2. It will all come down to clever and adapted drivers...

:sifone: Peter
Click to expand...

The spec for thunderbolt 2 is pci v2 4 lanes...
A motherboard doesn't have to be all v1 2 or 3 pci spec....
Almost all MB that are pci v3 16x slots are at the same time v1 for the 4x slots.....probably 90% of them...so it doesn't matter that the GPU's would be running v3

If you can find anything that shows thunderbolt 2 is pci v3 then I will gladly eat my hat on this....

As of right now the published specs for the only TB2 chipset in existence is 4 lanes pci v2.....
Unless intel developed another TB2 chip after releasing their first one to the public weeks ago
http://www.anandtech.com/show/7049/intel-thunderbolt-2-everything-you-need-to-know

And the limits for 4 lanes of pci v2 are a lot less then what thunderbolt 2 is capable of
 
Terry VerHaar said:
I guess I misunderstood what you were saying when you said "not so sure about that..." in response to my suggestion that there would be more than one model. :huh:
Click to expand...
sorry, i don't think i made myself clear...i always looked at the old mac pro as boxes for expansion...unlimited possibilities....need a lot of storage and pci cards? get the slowest one and fill it up, want raw power/speed go that route....one box, 20 different configurations/uses....
this one looks like it will be different...fewer options...
the whole thing about apple not having to make money with it...i guess that is just wishful thinking on my part:)...
 
Dustin Cross said:
My problem with the new Mac Pro is how do I get it in a rack environment? The current Mac Pro was annoying, this is just stupid.

It is a great little desktop Mac Mini Pro for people who don't need to move (DITs) or need much expansion. To connect all the devices I need to do my job to this new Mac, it would look like a bunch of Octopuses a having an orgy. Cables going everywhere. Think about every cable inside your tower. Now move them outside the tower and don't forget all those external devices need power. This new Mac is going to be a nightmare of cables if you try to use all the devices a professional uses in a power system.

Great machine for people who need Mac Mini on steroids. I just wish it was a cube so we could stack them. Terrible machine for real power users.


Dusty
Click to expand...

I don't see this being an issue. Just create a rectangular frame for it and mount that...you can even matte it if you'd like, only exposing the front or the back. We rack mounted Mac Minis when they were first released, working around the curved edges in just this fashion and it worked like a charm. You can rack mount a bowling ball with a little ingenuity : ).
 
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Terry VerHaar said:
For all you guys who have a problem with the form factor: get a big cardboard box (whatever size that fits your needs), place the cylinder in the box, then put in whatever peripherals you want (don't forget to plug them in), close the box. There, now you have the equivalent of the old tower and what every other PC maker does. :smiley:

By the way - the design is not just for aesthetics, it's also for heat dissipation. I'm no engineer but it seems to make sense to me.
Click to expand...

Exactly! At this size, you could actually stick it inside a tower case and mount all of your peripherals inside. Heck, use your old Mac Pro case and nothing changes on the design front...
 
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Rob Anderson said:
Any more details on your setup? Those are great speeds for that expansion RAID. Drives used? Connected to?
Click to expand...

pegasus r6 with stock drives, mbp retina....it seems like the pegasus was snappier when i bought it (empty)...and there are actually 2 other enclosures connected to the pegasus...
i never really believe those tests anyway...it was faster when it was empty, now it feels a tad slower...but it's all crazy compared to what we were used to a couple of years ago....and solid and easy and stable....and getting more and more affordable.....
a friend just bought a usb 3 portable thing with ssd....bus powered that thing gets almost 500 r/w....insane....and all this on a macbook!
 
paul schefz said:
pegasus r6 with stock drives, mbp retina....it seems like the pegasus was snappier when i bought it (empty)...and there are actually 2 other enclosures connected to the pegasus...
i never really believe those tests anyway...it was faster when it was empty, now it feels a tad slower...but it's all crazy compared to what we were used to a couple of years ago....and solid and easy and stable....and getting more and more affordable.....
a friend just bought a usb 3 portable thing with ssd....bus powered that thing gets almost 500 r/w....insane....and all this on a macbook!
Click to expand...

Good stuff. Very happy to see you getting performance like that from that particular setup. So far as TB goes, that's absolutely great. I admittedly cocked an eyebrow at your R/W report but I don't deny it's not possible -- just wish more were getting that reliably -- and I appreciate the extra details. I've been very happy with our setup and it's lighting all around, but dollar for dollar what you have there is great.
 
Mike Garrick said:
1) Will this beast handle 6k ?
Click to expand...

Define "handle." That's mostly up to the software, and it depends on what it is you expect or want to see. If you make your question a bit more specific, like "can I edit 6K Dragon files directly in Adobe, Final Cut X, or Resolve," the answer is probably yes. If you mean "can I play 6K R3D files in real time to some theoretical 6K display that doesn't currently exist," the answer is no.

2) Can It handle "Smoke' ...smoothly ?
Click to expand...

My guess is yes.

3) Can Da Vinci 10 run on it
Click to expand...

Yes, and very, very well according to Grant Petty, who already posted a comment on that subject. Looks like Blackmagic's integration of Open CL support is going to pay off pretty quickly.

4) Can it handle 4K natively (as we know it, not some apple variety )?
Click to expand...

In what form do "we know it?" If you're talking about R3d files, and playing them at 4K resolution, the answer is no, not without other hardware support (i.e., Red Rocket). But no other computer can either. If you're talking about playing in real time at a reduced resolution, then the answer is yes, as a number of programs can do that now.

5) Where does this leave Redrocket ?
Click to expand...

In the hands of Red, to either redesign to a Thunderbolt enabled form factor or not. But however you look at it, PCI expansion chassis based on Thunderbolt have already been available for some time, they will likely be faster and potentially more capable with the faster TB2 interface.

6) Do i need additional hardware to run external monitoring
Click to expand...

Well, you need monitors. And cables. And those monitors need to have Display Port interfaces. Aside from that, no.

7) How much more performance does this system offer compared to fully spec'd Retina or even I Mac's
Click to expand...

Uhhhhhhhh.......... "7" more.
Honestly, these machines are clearly going to be a LOT faster than any existing Apple desktop or laptop machine. That's a given. But they don't exist yet, so any comparison is futile.
 
M Most said:
Bruce, I'm really surprised at all of your comments on this thread. You're usually a lot more reasonable and a lot more reasoned in your thinking. But on this, you seem to have made up your mind far in advance of the reality of an actual shipping product. Even Apple was very careful to call this a "Sneak Preview." In our industry, that usually means the sound is not final, the visual effects are temporary, and the color has not been done. To judge a movie based on those things is not a good idea for laypeople. And to judge a radically redesigned computer at that stage is equally as presumptuous.

As far as video and GPU, my guess (and my guesses have been pretty good up to this point...) is that by the time this ships, there might be an NVidia option available, either directly from Apple or from others. Apple has clearly sanctioned a new form factor for the GPU's in this machine, and probably a new connector as a part of that. Giving that spec to Nvidia and its manufacturing partners would not be much of stretch. Personally, I don't understand so many people here being so attached to cards. PCIe cards completely suck in every way. They have all of their components exposed, making them fragile. They are static sensitive. They have many connectors that are easily damaged, and have to be reseated from time to time for no apparent reason. They cannot be miniaturized since they have to conform to a legacy form factor. They require more and more power and produce more and more heat. They often require drivers, and that leads to incompatibilities with new OS's and other issues. The fact is that one needs to look at real world cases to see whether Apple's new approach is really limiting anything. For my purposes, most towers contain cards to do only a few things: GPUs, storage HBA's, storage I/O (eSata and USB3, usually, but often SAS or Fibre Channel as well), and video I/O, especially SDI video. So based on that, let's review. GPU: in the new Mac Pro, that's a moot point, although options would be nice and, as I said, will most likely be offered, albeit not necessarily on the ship date. Storage I/O: No longer needed, as TB2 is faster than any current storage interconnect and still allows adapters to legacy interconnects. USB3: Included. Video I/O: Thunderbolt also acts as a video transport and supports larger resolutions than any existing Mac compatible video card. And for video type monitors, there's also HDMI 1.4 built in. SDI Video: Well, there's already the TBolt connected Blackmagic Ultra Studio 4K for less than $1000 that does more than any existing PCIe card, and works with anything that supports Blackmagic video cards, which now includes everything from Avid to Smoke to Adobe to Resolve.

I'm not going to say the new machine is for everyone, although that might eventually turn out to be the case. But what I see is one hell of an innovative design, a bump in performance that's not limited only to the hardware (or did you not watch the part of the keynote that talked about OS X and the performance improvements they've worked on implementing?), a potential end to legacy PCI type cards (and as far as I'm concerned, that is a very, very good thing, not the horrible thing you and others seem to want to make it out to be), and an invitation to third party manufacturers to up their game as well, even though that wasn't talked about today because it was only a "Sneak Preview," not a product rollout. I think you need to sit back, look at the big picture, let go of any prejudices you might have based on personal investment, and look at this in terms of a technology exercise. You might find a lot to like.
Click to expand...

bingo, bingo, bingo
 
Brendan Sandham said:
I don't see this being an issue. Just create a rectangular frame for it and mount that...you can even matte it if you'd like, only exposing the front or the back. We rack mounted Mac Minis when they were first released, working around the curved edges in just this fashion and it worked like a charm. You can rack mount a bowling ball with a little ingenuity : ).
Click to expand...

Yes. The fact that it is so much smaller than the existing tower is fantastic. I'm curious to know how well it will perform on its side...
 
Rob Anderson said:
Good stuff. Very happy to see you getting performance like that from that particular setup. So far as TB goes, that's absolutely great. I admittedly cocked an eyebrow at your R/W report but I don't deny it's not possible -- just wish more were getting that reliably -- and I appreciate the extra details. I've been very happy with our setup and it's lighting all around, but dollar for dollar what you have there is great.
Click to expand...

I have an Atto r680 controller in an OWC enclosure connected via miniSAS to a 8drive (regular HD's) RAID5 14TB with 5TB free Maxxdigital Evo 6G and a rMBP and I'm getting write speeds peaking at 600MB/s and read speeds peaking at 650 MB/s averaging 575 write and 625 read. Seem to recall it was a little faster when empty.
 
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