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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

New Lithium battery rule...

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I wrote the IATA yesterday and just received a reply.
Here is my mail and the reply from IATA:

Hi and Happy new year.
As part of the professional Broadcast and filmmaking community I feel that the new restrictions regarding rechargeable Li-Ion batteries has caused enormous anxiety since the latest press releases.
While the current information at both http://www.iata.org and http://SafeTravel.dot.gov/ is an excellent guide for the average consumer, it's unfortunately very open to interpretations by the professional community.

Would it be possible to make a small guide for us? As rechargeable Li-Ions are the preferred choice of portable power for everyone in the broadcast business, we are very concerned what the new rules mean to us and how we avoid to misread them them.

Take for example a few standart travelling kits usually used by professionals:

1. Steadicam operator:
8-10 <100W/hr Li-Ion spare batteries.

2. EFP Camera man:
4-6 <90W/hr Li-Ion spare batteries.

3. Digital Cinematographer:
4-6 <150W/hr Li-Ion spare batteries.

- Would it be possible for you give exact comment on how each of these professionals should approach the new legislation?
- Does a professional charger using mounts with battery safety locks count as a device?
- How many spare <100 W/hr spare and mounted Li-ions (<8g Lithium content) can we bring abord? (Mounted on a charger, with taped terminals, mounted on a camcorder)
- Does having a notebook (68W/hr) and a mobile phone (10W/hr) subtract from the limit of Lithium content you can bring?

Hope to hear from you soon as the uncertainty is causing great concern at the moment.

And thank you for making flying as safe as possible :-)

Venlig hilsen / Best Regards
Anders Holck Petersen
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Dear Mr. Petersen,

Thank you for taking the time to inquire with us.

The professional equipment you have mentioned is not covered by the wording used in sub-section 2.3 of the IATA Dangerous Goods Regulations. Table 2.3.A expressly refers to "Consumer Electronic Devices" and not to professional equipment.

Airlines typically permit professional equipment under the scope of these regulations to a certain degree, however, this is actually good will on the side of the airlines.

The "Large" batteries with an aggregate Lithium content of more than eight but less than 25 g are limited to a number of two spares, either as carry-on or on one's person. Whilst the exact number of smaller batteries is not regulated - this would also depend on the number of gadgets carried by the passenger - such number must be "within reason" which is, of course, subject to interpretation by the airlines and regulatory authorities of the states in question.

A battery charger which does NOT contain batteries and does not meet the classification criteria for any of the nine classes is not subject to the requirements of the IATA DGR.
However, I would not support considering a charger containing batteries a device (and subsequently being permitted within check-in baggage). A battery is either installed in the gadget or device it is intended to power or it must be considered a "spare" in the context of Table 2.3.A.

I would personally consider a number of three to four spare batteries as suitable, but one will have to look at this on a case by case basis. My best advice is to contact the airline or airlines in question and make sure that they will accept a given number of spare batteries on all sectors, and that the decision of the airline has also taken the regulatory approach by all states concerned and security requirements on transit airports and / or return legs (where applicable) into consideration.

Please don't hesitate to get back to us if you have further questions or if we may be of further assistance.

Best Regards,

Jens-Thomas Rueckert

Jens-Thomas RUECKERT
Manager Special Cargo Support
Phone +1 514 874 0202 Ext. 3247
Fax +1 514 874 2660

International Air Transport Association
800, Place Victoria, PO Box 113
Montreal, Quebec, Canada H4Z 1M1
www.iata.org

2008 IATA World Cargo Symposium

Focus on the Customer

3-6 March 2008 - Rome, Italy

http://www.iata.org/events/wcs08/index.htm
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Anders Holck said:
I wrote the IATA yesterday and just received a reply.
Click to expand...

Great work and info Anders. This query and attached response should be sent to a number of airlines to get their take. Also, perhaps sending it to Heathrow Airport in London (they seem to be the most troublesome to get anything through) would be good too.
 
TSA Official Stance

TSA Official Stance

I just got off the phone with a TSA representative at their headquarters and what she said after speaking with her manager is that they need to clarify the rule. As it stands, in theory one should be able to carry on as many spare Li-Ion under 8 grams batteries as one would like, but the rule is so badly written that it does not explicity say so. She said that TSA agents may not understand anything other than "No more than 2 spare batteries" and take anything above that.

Until the rule is updated on the TSA website, her advice is to carry no more than 2 spares per person.

By the way, IDX has just written a document addressing the new TSA rule: they state the lithium content of each model and were kind enough to modify the document to put the Steadicam PowerCube model onto the list.
 
great work guys...

the " subject to interpretation " scares me a bit.
 
how do i get home from Dubai with 8 RED batteries...anyone?

maybe ill leave them here and start a red rental house in the middle east, any investors?
 
The rules will be changing again in October 2008.....and they will get tougher.....
 
You know, I didn't know batteries could just blow up on their own at all. I'm not sure if this story applies, but I used to gather up spare AA, AAA, C, ect. batteries together and put them in ziploc baggies and put them in a drawer when we needed more batteries or whatnot. Well, I don't know how it happened but one day I happen to get a whiff of something coming from one of the drawers and I open it up and, low and behold, the ziploc baggie is blackened from the inside out. Only a couple of batteries, a AA and a C-sized battery, were burnt up but we threw the whole bag away anyway for safety. I supposed that somehow they got ruffled around and clinked together and sparked or something. Since then, I've learned not to mix different battery sizes together. The AA's get their own baggie and the C's get theirs.

As far as bigger batteries goes, I'd hate to see a similar thing happen with batteries the size of bricks.
 
Jack_Felis said:
As far as bigger batteries goes, I'd hate to see a similar thing happen with batteries the size of bricks.
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The battery chemistry will play a big part in how destructive a battery that is alight can be.

NiMH aren't that dangerous.
Li-Ion burn like crazy but can be extinguished.
Li metal burn like crazy and can't be easily extinguished.
 
Approved packaging please

Approved packaging please

FWIW I think the answer is containerization that is tested and approved by the TSA and other authorities.

Just out of curiosity, does anyone know what the incident history is for batteries causing fires or explosions on planes?

To be clear - this is not RED's responsibility. What I would like to know is why NAB or SMPTE or some other industry group was not on top of this issue months ago?
 
Blair S. Paulsen said:
FWIW I think the answer is containerization that is tested and approved by the TSA and other authorities.

Just out of curiosity, does anyone know what the incident history is for batteries causing fires or explosions on planes?

To be clear - this is not RED's responsibility. What I would like to know is why NAB or SMPTE or some other industry group was not on top of this issue months ago?
Click to expand...

Hi Blair,

It's not a new issue there have been restrictions flying with Lithium Ion batteries for several years, seems most people just ignored it.

There are plenty of alternatives, the just weigh more.

Stephen
 
Mayby someone should make explosion proof cases for batteries. This might make the FAA sleep better at night.
 
Blair S. Paulsen said:
Just out of curiosity, does anyone know what the incident history is for batteries causing fires or explosions on planes?
Click to expand...
It all kicked off after that crate of laptop batteries caught fire in (I think) LAX. It was the beginning of the bad batch incident that saw millions recalled. Whilst it didn't happen on the plane itself it brought home that had it done it would've been fairly catastrophic I would suppose. As such the laws have been getting tighter and tighter, and saying it was a bad batch is useless given that what's to stop there being another bad batch. I think there is a bit of doubt over the type of battery since they might've been the li-pol one's and not the li-ion's. But frankly the airlines couldn't care less about the type.

I agree chuck about a bomb proof case, that's kinda what I was getting at earlier in the thread. Can't be that hard and you now have a quite substantial market for it.

Paul
 
Li-po is about as dangerous as li-ion.

I think I'll make some goldmount LiFEPO4 batts.
 
Just for the record, there have been numerous cases of laptop and cell phone li ion batteries catching fire on a plane. This is not something new. This is why most of the laptop manufacturers have re-called their batteries, and in some cases more than once. There was an incident on the Vice Presidents plane that involved an ABC News crew a few years back and caused an emergency landing.....due to a re-chargeable li ion for a playback recorder being shorted and started to smoke. Not to mention the incident back in February of 2007 on the Jet Blue airplane that ended up burning up the entire overhead bin and the News camera that was in it....

Remember, li ion is the only rechargeable battery that has a flamable electrolyte.....

There is also another case of a film production truck in Chicago catching fire due to a li ion battery.......
 
I think part of this is also the number of batteries out there. Most of these batteries have a chip or mechanism that prevents the battery from being explosive or flammable. IF someone was to actually remove the built in safeguards. The batteries could be made dangerous! With the availability of these batteries nearly every where, they could be made into a ready made weapon of terror. I have not heard of such activities yet, but nothing is out of the realm of possibility.
Also bear in mind, if the battery could burn hot enough it might start an aluminum fire. I also have not heard if this can be confirmed yet either.

It is a shame that technology that is built to make life better could or would be used for such things.
 
Humbug bans

Humbug bans

The irony is that ni cads are capable of delivering loads of amps and creating a fire far, more readily than a lithium ion.
I raised this issue with CAA UK in the mid nineties when new companies
repaired and recelled nic cads by soldering individual terminals (weak joint) rather than spot welding. (strong joint)


When the joints broke a number of minor fires were started , fortunately all within sight of the cameraman.

Manufactures and after market re-cellers improved their techniques and the perceived threat went away.

That was until a pallet of watch batteries caught fire as it was waiting to be loaded into a commercial aircraft. There were obviously no fuses between each cell. Airport fire service took ages to control the fire.
Unfortunately this has prompted the latest ruling which treats all batteries the same, regardless of the quality of fusing or packaging.

Also it does not create a weight limit of lithium per plane, instead it creates a limit per passenger. We all know that they way around this is for a crew to spread the batteries between crew members.

A nonsense.

The issue with lithium seems to be the difficulty in fighting the fire once it starts rather than its propensity to cause fire, which I believe is lower than Nic Cads.



Lithuims are prone to burst into flames if they are being incorrectly charged, enough examples on Utube.

Was sitting next to my sound recordist on a small boat when I felt a burning sensation on my leg, it was a spare (home made) nicad celled battery pack for his mixer that he was carrying in his jacket, it had shorted and would have caused a fire or serious burns had he not acted quickly.

Haven't heard of any issues with pro Li ion batts except for the one mentioned din this thread on a Jet Blue flight. Any more details on that incidence?

I experienced a 100w halogen sungun being left connected to a battery and was accidentally switched on in the crew van and caused a fire....there's something else that should be checked before flight halogen sun guns:)




Mike Brennan
 
i am in frankfurt right now, making my way back to LAX from Dubai and I have 8 batteries and not once has anyone hassled me about them. so not sure what all the fuss is about.
 
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