New cooke panchros or zaiss cp2

[martin.kryjom]

HI
Please advice what to buy , cooke panchros or zaiss compact primes.
I need 2 sets, color matched as i go for 3D.
Anybody try panchros?
Any test on zaiss?

Best regards

 

[Alexander Ibrahim]

HI
Please advice what to buy , cooke panchros or zaiss compact primes.
I need 2 sets, color matched as i go for 3D.
Anybody try panchros?
Any test on zaiss?

Best regards

The advice I have received is to use zoom lenses.

The simple production reason? Changing prime lenses on a beam splitter rig takes a lot of time. You aren't just changing two lenses, you have to calibrate them and reset all your mechanical 3D parameters. I see primes used primarily for long focal lengths on side by side rigs with fairly wide separations and otherwise simple set ups.

Computers in post can make up for a lot of errors in the lenses themselves. That sucks on principle, but what you get in return is speed on set.

In fact... take note that Cameron chose to shoot 2/3" cameras for Avatar.

There is some terrific glass out there for b4 mount cameras, and both Canon and Fujinon have solutions in place right now that allow them to compensate for the inevitable differences between lenses.

If you really want to go S35 PL mount, I recommend Angeniuex Optimo DP an Zeiss LWZ.2. I'd probably go with Angeniuex because they seem to have a more complete line up of zoom lenses.

Best of luck,

 

[Evin Grant]

Optimo DP Rouges for 3D for sure!

 

[Matt Uhry]

Listen to Evin- the Optimo DP Rouge ( typically the wide 16-42 ) is a great choice for 3d on a larger sensor camera.

Primes will take quite a bit of time on set and converted still zooms will put you in a world of hurt in post due to L-R mechanical variables. Color matching is not that huge a problem because you are already not matching because one camera is shooting through a beamsplitter and the other is reflecting off of it. The color variable remains pretty much constant. EVERYTHING that did not match on set will have to be tweaked in post.

You might want to consider that large sensor cameras are in many cases less desirable for 3d work than those that use a small 2/3 inch format due to deep depth of field being a good thing for most 3d work.

Matt Uhry
www.mattuhry.com

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

+1 to everything Matt said.

+1 again for the Rouge zooms.

I haven't had the chance to shoot any RED 3D for an actual paid project. But I'm far more interested in shooting 3D with the upcoming 2/3" Scarlet than I am with the current RED One and the massive rigs involved.

 

[Tom.Wong]

or the new alura's... price point is there too.

 

[Dan Kanes]

Just Playing devil's advocate here:

using a Zoom on a 3D rig - what is the percentage chance that tolerances between the focal size markings are within ~5% tolerance: i.e. any two 16-42 zooms set at 35 on the zoom scale will they match within 5%?

Excuse my ignorance on the topic.

 

[Michael Ragen]

Just make sure your sensors are squared up to the lens mount if you go the zoom route.
Also depends on how much room you can afford to take up if you go with zooms.
The two 3d jobs i've shot were both with primes. The first one we used Duclos Nikkors and the second we used Ultra Primes. They both worked out great although I would stay away from still lenses for 3d in general.
It's true that changing primes on a beamsplitter takes time, but a couple times where we ran out of time and couldn't calibrate, everything worked out fine. 4k resolution is very forgiving. Of course this also depends on whether you are shooting converged or parallel as parallel is easier to adjust in post.

 

[Mitch Gross]

Unlike other lenses, the Optimo DP zooms allow one to adjust zoom tracking while the lens is mounted to the camera. That is a HUGE plus in aligning 3D beamsplitter rigs.

 

[Jacek Zakowicz]

sensor centering

sensor centering

Unlike other lenses, the Optimo DP zooms allow one to adjust zoom tracking while the lens is mounted to the camera. That is a HUGE plus in aligning 3D beamsplitter rigs.

Don't forget that the sensors on RedOnes are decentered sometimes as well. That's where the Optimator shines- allows you to match the sensor centering on cameras-I've been getting excellent feedback on this topic from customers
check our this video on how it's done:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tF022NkUeOw :emote_popcorn:

 

[martin.kryjom]

HI
Thanks for all for u posts.
Is a taft decision as for sure we still will shoot 20 % 3D , rest will go 2d for long time i think.
Im interested in EPIC cameras as they are small, for sure scarlet will be better but long time to wait. SO for now i think new epic will be the best ...

Zooms- In the beginning i thought it is good idea, but then ehn i have asked few people around there is meny point of view. Zooms are not equal to each other in the scale and center, Primes - if there is precise beamspliter can be adjust with litle time i think. If we use bleamspliter with every parameter scaled , then for every lens and camera we can set up numbers for 0 start point.
Then all will be easier i think.
Is only truth if i will own all system, i mean rig, cameras and lenses.
I thought to use panchro as they are small and light. I going to use P+S freestyle rig.
Problem with zooms is that DOP do not like them in normal conditions , and i do not wonna my investment to stay at home
WHat is the price range for optimo? I need 2 of them or 2 sets of others...
I think also for zooms i need for sure additional motors, as the zooms has to be scaled that they match FOV , not possible to set up that manually . For primes we do not need that, only focus and IO.

Really confused about all that thing, and im wondering sometimes if there will be future for 3D or is just AVATAR influence for next 1-2 years...

(((((((

 

[Matt Uhry]

HI

Really confused about all that thing, and im wondering sometimes if there will be future for 3D or is just AVATAR influence for next 1-2 years...

Yes that's the puzzle.... whether the current burst of interest in 3d will sustain over the next few years. I really don't know.


What's not a puzzle ( at least from a production standpoint ) is that if 3d does flourish:

-For dramatic style work you need to use a beamsplitter rig. Anything else, single split lens, parallel will not cut it in terms of creative control. Not even close.

-Zooms are good - primes simply take WAY too much time. You will probably be happy in the sort of wide to long end of medium angles of view. Prime lens snobs will get over it when faced with 20 minute lens changes.

-Small sensors are good, because having a bit more depth of field is typically a good thing in 3D.

Your own mileage will vary of course....

Matt Uhry
www.mattuhry.com

 

[Paul Nordin]

HI
Thanks for all for u posts.

Is only truth if i will own all system, i mean rig, cameras and lenses.
I thought to use panchro as they are small and light. I going to use P+S freestyle rig.
Problem with zooms is that DOP do not like them in normal conditions , and i do not wonna my investment to stay at home
(((((((

Martin,
The Optimo DPs are $20k USD per lens, and you need both lenses to cover a reasonable focal range. So $40k USD for the set. Cooke Panchros are about $33k USD for a five lens set I believe.

The Panchros are still very new, and I don't think anybody on this list has worked with them enough yet to render a reasonable comparative evaluation. Too bad though as I'm most interested in the Panchros. To my knowledge, the only hit they get right now is for lens speed at 2.8. If a set ever gets out to San Francisco, I'll rent them and see for myself.

The only other lens I'm really considering are the Optimo DPs. Both are quite different, and a good part of my decision is about client demand. Since both sets are new, its a little bit of a guess-timate to anticipate that.