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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

New Canon 4K monitor and 2/3" sensor size camera prototype

Will be there on friday...
 
That fixed zoom lens 7mm-140mm or 24-480mm @ FF35mm with 20x optical zoom @ f/1.8-3.8 on Canon 2/3" sensor 4K concept camera looks gorgeous.

p_2592_1936_3B8E7FC0-B90B-4DE6-973C-29CFF8001869.jpeg

Photo by philipbloom.net.

p_2592_1936_639EEBC3-182A-4241-80F2-4BF25AD065D2.jpeg

Photo by philipbloom.net.
 
I guess the guys at c.com were off by a little bit when they claimed 4K monitors are still decades away. ;)
 
Sanjin Jukic said:
That fixed zoom lens 7mm-140mm or 24-480mm @ FF35mm with 20x optical zoom @ f/1.8-3.8 on Canon 2/3" sensor 4K concept camera looks gorgeous.

p_2592_1936_3B8E7FC0-B90B-4DE6-973C-29CFF8001869.jpeg

Photo by philipbloom.net.

p_2592_1936_639EEBC3-182A-4241-80F2-4BF25AD065D2.jpeg

Photo by philipbloom.net.
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That's one of the reasons going with 2/3" makes a lot of sense - zooms with tremendous range, and fast and no problem making very high quality optics since they have huge amounts of 2/3" optics development already under their belts. And these days 2/3 is a pretty big sensor and 4k/8mp is a piece of cake to make. There's a reason 2/3 3k made sense (probably for red in part because it let red make more efficient use of their CMOS wafer and that's how many "K" you get with the micron size pixel red is using) and for the same optics reasons 2/3" makes good sense for canon but since they have their own CMOS fab plant and numerous other sensors in their line it is easy to make it 4k which even red has said is the minimum target for the future.

Presumably this chip uses the same pixel size as the 7d,t2i, and 60d which are 18mp in s35/aps c so probably just cutting it down to 2/3" gives you the 4k 8mp although I would have to do the math.

Bruce Allen said:
Will they let you film the 4K playback with your RED to see if it's really resolving 4K?

Heheheheh...

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com
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With the bayer loss we'd need 5k for that - so please Jim shipme an epic!! :) I sold my t2i yesterday, and my r1 is on long term so all I have left is my STD def Ikegami and a pentax 645 film slr. Need it soon. :)
 
Tom Lowe said:
I guess the guys at c.com were off by a little bit when they claimed 4K monitors are still decades away. ;)
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I don't recall anyone saying that at Cinematography.Com, especially considering that 4K monitors already existed before this Canon -- I think Dalsa had some, and Sony showed a prototype at NAB two years ago I think.

The skepticism is only whether consumers would embrace 4K for home video viewing and gaming in the near future when HDTV monitors are only in 30% of homes.

It's the same healthy skepticism when people start proclaiming that film is already dead and most Hollywood movies are going to be shot digitally by 2011.

The only disagreements among the majority of members at Cinematography.Com (ignoring the die-hard cynics Phil and Keith -- just because they are the most vocal doesn't make them a majority) involve the timeline of this transition.

Tom, you always tend to take the most positive, or optimistic, viewpoint on these things because you personally are working at the cutting edge and you hang out with others who do likewise, you hang out on forums like RedUser.Com where people are shooting in 4K every day, so from your perspective, the future is already here! From my perspective, working with a variety of mid-range feature and TV producers and directors, that future is not coming quite as quickly as it is for you. I just wrapped on an indie movie shot in 35mm after all, and it's late 2010. Back in 2000, when the F900 came out, a lot of people said film origination for movies would be dead in five years. My guess at the time was more like 15 years...

4K monitoring is not an impossibility -- how could it be? The issue isn't really the technology, every indication is that it is possible to add more pixels to things, sensors, monitors, etc. The real issue is consumer trends, do they move in a predictable direction and is the speed consistent. I believe that greater resolution in origination and display is inevitable, even obvious. I don't think that's debatable. The only question is the timeline -- a prototype 4K monitor at NAB or IBC doesn't mean half the homes in America will have them in two or three years. I've been going to these trade shows for too many years and seen things that take years to become commonplace. I'm typing this on location using a 6 year old Mac laptop that can't even play HD reliably... I had my 27" Sony CRT TV at home for 16 years before I replaced it... if I can't afford to spring for new technology on a whim, and my career revolves around it... then what about the average consumer?

I'm proudly a skeptical person... I think the key is to avoid cynicism, which is really skepticism mixed with unreasonable pessimism. There are some real cynics at Cinematography.Com, don't get me wrong, but I get tired of that site being painted with such a broad brush stroke, some people there are merely skeptics, and there's nothing wrong with that.
 
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Kalani Prince said:
I wonder what it will be priced at and when Canon plans on releasing it : )
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It's a concept camera I don't believe canon will ever release it, Phillip says that himself in the beginning of the article.
 
People complain about the look of RED cams? That thing looks like tech that people in the 70's and 80's envisioned our current tech would look like.
 
David, you know I'm just teasing some of our diehard friends at c.com. It wasn't too long ago that many of them proclaimed 4K as "useless" for acquisition, distribution, and display!

4K acquisition is now quickly moving toward the mainstream, with Canon actually showing off a 4K prototype at Canon expo. 4K distribution and projection are on the way very soon, with thousands and thousands of cinemas converting to 4K. And the real missing link, 4K LCDs, also seem to be edging closer to reality.

I've always thought that Red owners and gamers would be the ones driving 4K LCDs. Jim now has something like 6,000 or 7,000 Red Ones out in the wild, doesn't he? How are all of these people going to view their 4K clips? And with Epic coming soon, the drive to display 5K RAW material finished at 4K RGB will be massive.

The other thing I believe in is that this technology in not moving in a linear fashion. We are not moving from VHS to DVD to Bluray to 4K on a linear graph. The adoption of 4K will benefit from exponential technology trends. Once people REALLY see 4K up close, it will quickly become the new "HD" for home theater buffs, gamers, etc.
 
Sure, you're speaking from a technological perspective, but there is an economic perspective too, personal spending is not accelerating even if technological development is. And yes, from a movie production industry perspective, 4K monitoring makes sense as more and more post work gets done in 4K, but that's a different market than the home. And just because some theaters are installing 4K projectors doesn't necessarily mean that they will all be getting 4K files to play on them. I just don't see all of this taking off at the same speed as you do... after all, I personally have yet to convince any producer to finish any movie I've shot at 4K, whether I originated on film or on the Red One. The 35mm movie I just shot will be posted at 2K at Tunnel Post. It's hard to convince any producer to spend the extra money on doing the work in 4K. Just because the technology exists, the economic pressure to spend less money doesn't go away -- unfortunately, if there is a 4K option, it means there is always a cheaper 2K option. And even if 4K gets cheaper, it means that 2K gets cheaper. I'd love to break that "2K is good enough" mindset but I don't see that attitude disappearing in one, two, or three years... and beyond that, it's not particularly practical for me to guess.
 
David Mullen ASC said:
...

I'm proudly a skeptical person... I think the key is to avoid cynicism, which is really skepticism mixed with unreasonable pessimism. ... some people are merely skeptics, and there's nothing wrong with that.
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Usually I've been too busy to post here so I applaud you, David, for taking the time and patients. I also appreciate you making posts with value where as many just post for the sake of posting. Thank you.
 
I think 2k will remain dominant until the first gen 2k digital projectors reach end of service life in the theater chains. That should be around 7 to 10 years from now.
 
4K displays

4K displays

I think 2k will remain dominant until the first gen 2k digital projectors reach end of service life in the theater chains. That should be around 7 to 10 years from now.
Click to expand...

That may prove to be true from the perspective of digital cinema projection - if only because of the cost of upgrading the installed base.

But I'd suggest that 4K displays will be common way before that timeframe, driven by other applications.
 
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