New Article About Red One and Rentals

[Uli Plank]

Doesn't an ARRI gear head cost more than a Red one body?

But it lasts for 40 years – will anybody want to rent a Red One in 40 years from now? Some wil be shown in museums by then if humankind manages to survive…

 

[Zaphod]

I though it was openly stated that one of the main goals for RED was to change the industry from rental to owner/operator?

 

[Jay A. Kelley]

Happily, what has NOT gotten easier, is the operation and data management of RED. A lot of clients I talk to not only want the equipment, but someone that knows how to deal with it.

Great news for Owner/Operators.

Jay

 

[Peter Hodgins]

I think the Epic is the time when the rental houses will make it's push. Talked to one large rental house who said they already had an order for 3, whatever that meant.

Could mean they already have 3 Red Ones .....

 

[Peter Hodgins]

I don't think so many people will buy the Epic,

I don't know about sales figures, but I think the Epic will totally revolutionalise filmmaking.
This is going to crank the "art" up a notch. I hope I can afford one in two years.

The Epic is really really cool!

I can afford it right now if I decide to live in a van, down by the river.

An Epic, a cat , a harley, a glock, a van down by the river, hmmm ......

 

[Stephen Williams]

I don't know about sales figures, but I think the Epic will totally revolutionalise filmmaking.
This is going to crank the "art" up a notch. n Epic, a cat , a harley, a glock, a van down by the river, hmmm ......

Hi,

I heard exactly the same 2 years ago about Red One, 2 years before that about HVX 200 & 10 years before that about DV. I must be very old.

Stephen

 

[Álex Montoya]

I heard exactly the same 2 years ago about Red One, 2 years before that about HVX 200 & 10 years before that about DV. I must be very old.

I don't know how old you are but you certainly sound old.

What are you saying? That things hasn't changed quite a bit in the last 6-7 years?

 

[Dave Blackham]

I think the article is correct but completely expected outcome. Red is a very welcome addition to our hire fleet but also has empowered ourselves and many other independent film makers access to a very good camera and some new tools. Its rather like a few years ago when well set up FCP suites empowered independent film makers by giving them access to new tools that allowed high end image and audio processing in an affordable package. This affected Post houses too but did benefit production companies by allowing them to internalise some of the processes they previously contracted out.

These days we are seeing production companies investing more in kit and facility companies moving in to production. Im not saying its good or bad but it is an industry change that's happening.

 

[M Most]

I don't know how old you are but you certainly sound old.

What are you saying? That things hasn't changed quite a bit in the last 6-7 years?

I think what he's saying is that grandiose statements like "this will totally revolutionize filmmaking" are usually just that - grandiose statements that are usually proven to be at least overblown, if not plain wrong. It takes a very, very long time for serious change to happen in the film industry. In the last 20 years or so, the only real "revolution" has been in the area of post production, in which editing on computers has essentially completely replaced film editing, post production of sound on computers has completely replaced analog audio editing and mixing, and digital intermediate has largely replaced photochemical timing. However, the vast majority of studio motion pictures are still shot on film, and theatrical distribution worldwide is still primarily film based, years after the predictions of their death were made. It's easy to say that digital technology will ultimately replace photochemical technology for production, and undoubtedly true. But the real "revolution" (and I really dislike that term, at least in this context) is in the method, not one specific tool. Red will be a player. There will also be other players.

 

[Chosei Funahara]

I bet Arri 35 ll that sold close to 20,000 unit since 1945 to 35 BL's announcement and 35 ll sold with zeiss standard lens set also, but rental market didn't die.
5000 unit of R1 in a year is neck braking speed, but will cool down.

When I shoot, I rent second body, extra batteries, HMI and special lenses from rental house. I need them.

 

[Stephen Williams]

What are you saying? That things hasn't changed quite a bit in the last 6-7 years?

Hi Alex,

In 2008 I shot less days of video/digital than any year since 1988.
I shoot more days of 35mm than 7 years ago, I also turn down more work than I did 7 years ago & earn more.

Producers still ring up and say times are tough, will I work for a special rate or free, I generally send them this link.
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=mj5IV23g-fE

Stephen

 

[david farland]

I think what he's saying is that grandiose statements like "this will totally revolutionize filmmaking" are usually just that - grandiose statements that are usually proven to be at least overblown, if not plain wrong. It takes a very, very long time for serious change to happen in the film industry. In the last 20 years or so, the only real "revolution" has been in the area of post production, in which editing on computers has essentially completely replaced film editing, post production of sound on computers has completely replaced analog audio editing and mixing, and digital intermediate has largely replaced photochemical timing. However, the vast majority of studio motion pictures are still shot on film, and theatrical distribution worldwide is still primarily film based, years after the predictions of their death were made. It's easy to say that digital technology will ultimately replace photochemical technology for production, and undoubtedly true. But the real "revolution" (and I really dislike that term, at least in this context) is in the method, not one specific tool. Red will be a player. There will also be other players.

well put Mike...should start a thread titled...'Annoying Reduser cliches'

Top of the list...'Film is Dead'

Dave

 

[Gunleik Groven]

Hi Alex,

In 2008 I shot less days of video/digital than any year since 1988.
I shoot more days of 35mm than 7 years ago, I also turn down more work than I did 7 years ago & earn more.

Producers still ring up and say times are tough, will I work for a special rate or free, I generally send them this link.
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=mj5IV23g-fE

Stephen

Niceone Stephen!

 

[Dave Blackham]

well put Mike...should start a thread titled...'Annoying Reduser cliches'

Top of the list...'Film is Dead'

Dave

For me this is an interesting statement that make me smile, on my 18 birthday and joined a major Broadcaster in the audio department and I remember someone in the electronic camera department saying Film will be dead next year with these new camera's we are now using for drama, (a sort of truck based camera set up). Last week I was 49 Im told by a film manufacturer that sales are still going well with film stock....

 

[Jeff Coatney]

Nice article. It sums up the current situation on the ground in a market like Los Angeles that has a large supply of equipment rental options. I feel that it mischaracterizes the strategy Red is employing however. To say simply that there is a glut of cameras in the rental market takes a narrow view of the situation. Instead of the gloom and doom predicted by the author of what fates may befall the Red Owner/Operator in the Rental business, I see a burning reason for all filmmakers to be even more interested in shooting Red. I also see an even more accelerated rate at which film departs. The economics of 35mm are changing, just as we all predicted, making it even more affordable than ever to shoot 35mm. Just not on film. This is fantastic news.

I feel the author of this article is looking at the market in his rear-view mirror. He is obviously a seasoned professional and perhaps its that experience that has informed his opinion on the matter. All the market indicators that he has cannily identified as negatives from a rental perspective, I see as roadsigns to a much brighter future for filmmakers.

Zoom out a little and take a look at the big picture for a moment. Two years ago a 35mm shoot day would have cost thousands of dollars. Now it costs hundreds. How much did it cost to finish a 35mm project to HD? Now, just two years later we can do it for a fraction of the cost. Shooting a 35mm short two years ago would have been an option for about 10% of the filmmakers that had a film they wanted to make. Now, shooting a short in 35mm is possible for 80-90% of filmmakers. Even in the economic downturn.

So if you have an expensive post house or a huge rental house with film cameras, you are justified in feeling nervous about your investment. If you bought a Red thinking you're gonna retire off what you make renting it out, that wasn't good planning in the first place.

The Red is about the filmmaker, not the rental house. The film industry has traditionally protected itself by limiting access to professional level tools and thereby limiting competition. Red utterly destroys that, far more violently than people realize. Red crushes the idea of fewer films and fewer directors. Red crushes nearly every aspect of how we make movies.

Two years have brought enormous changes. The Red footprint is not a glut of cameras, it is a renaissance of filmmaking. Stop putting the money you have to make films behind the camera and start putting that money in front of the camera. The savings are real and getting bigger, put the cash you save on the screen. It's about your art, your skill, your message, it's no longer about the tools. "Become who you were born to be."

 

[Tonaci Tran]

Hi Alex,

In 2008 I shot less days of video/digital than any year since 1988.
I shoot more days of 35mm than 7 years ago, I also turn down more work than I did 7 years ago & earn more.

Producers still ring up and say times are tough, will I work for a special rate or free, I generally send them this link.
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=mj5IV23g-fE

Stephen

Hi Stephen,

From here in Vietnam, I cam/steadicam operated for 5 full length feature films shot on red which will all get theatrical release. These would have all been shot on 35mm if RED did not exist. These are major features as they pertain to Vietnam. Commercials here which used to be shot 35mm have now also gone 90% RED. Red has made a tremendous impact here.

My point being, while your experience has been majority 35mm, just because you don't experience it in your region doesn't mean that RED has not made a huge paradigm shift in others.

 

[Priyesh P.]

Producers still ring up and say times are tough, will I work for a special rate or free, I generally send them this link.
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=mj5IV23g-fE

Stephen

Stephen, that clips was absolutely fantastic - thanks a lot!!! Great point he is making!

 

[Jeff Coatney]

I love that link. I live that link.

 

[A. Clint Litton]

Some encouraging points here. While I personally didn't choose to purchase a Red One solely for the purpose of renting it, but rather, to enable myself as a cinematographer and filmmaker, my expectations of at least some degree of economic reward for owning such a great piece of technology have been somewhat dashed. I suppose it's good to be reminded of the ultimate reason behind the purchase: to aid in furthering my career (which perhaps should not be confused primarily in terms of making money).

I have not come close to earning back my investment, perhaps have come into the game a bit late, have allowed myself to be less than aggressive in promoting myself and my equipment. And while I have no intention of downplaying the enormity of the investment that I've made as it pertains to my personal financial situation, it doesn't make much sense, at least to me, to take such a grim view of falling rental rates, even if it means I won't be able to earn as much as I may have anticipated a few months back. There WILL be a return on this investment, and it may not be apparent solely in monetary terms, and it may take longer to realize the full extent of this return.

The ability to step outside and take footage, really only at the expense of data storage space, is something with which 35mm (and even 16mm) simply cannot compete, at least not on this personal scale. Yes, finishing costs on a larger scale may always be pricey, regardless of origination format, but with digital distribution beginning to ramp up, I am happy with the tools I've chosen to invest in. Now I just need someone to help me lug this camera around...

I've long agreed with the statement that what is of most importance is that which you put in front of the lens, be it the writing, the performances, the production design, etc. It always baffled me at a student level when people would clamor for the highest end technology, even when it would severely limit where else they could place their remaining production funds, especially when using that higher technology did nothing, ultimately, to serve the story they were trying to tell. I suppose it only served as a consolation, when the finished product left little to talk about, other than the fact that it was shot on the F900 or 35mm or what-have-you.

That said, it is still a bit enthralling to regard the images this camera can produce, and despite what the future holds for the industry, for Red as a company, etc., I'm very thankful for the advances Jim & Co. have pursued so that I have the ability to shoot on such a level, when and where I choose.

Cheers,
Clint Litton

Nice article. It sums up the current situation on the ground in a market like Los Angeles that has a large supply of equipment rental options. I feel that it mischaracterizes the strategy Red is employing however. To say simply that there is a glut of cameras in the rental market takes a narrow view of the situation. Instead of the gloom and doom predicted by the author of what fates may befall the Red Owner/Operator in the Rental business, I see a burning reason for all filmmakers to be even more interested in shooting Red. I also see an even more accelerated rate at which film departs. The economics of 35mm are changing, just as we all predicted, making it even more affordable than ever to shoot 35mm. Just not on film. This is fantastic news.

I feel the author of this article is looking at the market in his rear-view mirror. He is obviously a seasoned professional and perhaps its that experience that has informed his opinion on the matter. All the market indicators that he has cannily identified as negatives from a rental perspective, I see as roadsigns to a much brighter future for filmmakers.

Zoom out a little and take a look at the big picture for a moment. Two years ago a 35mm shoot day would have cost thousands of dollars. Now it costs hundreds. How much did it cost to finish a 35mm project to HD? Now, just two years later we can do it for a fraction of the cost. Shooting a 35mm short two years ago would have been an option for about 10% of the filmmakers that had a film they wanted to make. Now, shooting a short in 35mm is possible for 80-90% of filmmakers. Even in the economic downturn.

So if you have an expensive post house or a huge rental house with film cameras, you are justified in feeling nervous about your investment. If you bought a Red thinking you're gonna retire off what you make renting it out, that wasn't good planning in the first place.

The Red is about the filmmaker, not the rental house. The film industry has traditionally protected itself by limiting access to professional level tools and thereby limiting competition. Red utterly destroys that, far more violently than people realize. Red crushes the idea of fewer films and fewer directors. Red crushes nearly every aspect of how we make movies.

Two years have brought enormous changes. The Red footprint is not a glut of cameras, it is a renaissance of filmmaking. Stop putting the money you have to make films behind the camera and start putting that money in front of the camera. The savings are real and getting bigger, put the cash you save on the screen. It's about your art, your skill, your message, it's no longer about the tools. "Become who you were born to be."

 

[Thomas Mathai]

Are you kidding, the Scarlets are going to sell in the tens of thousands. With the advent of 3d at home, new view sonic 3d monitors and projectors, Nvidia glasses, I think every tom dick and harry is going to want a stereo rigged scarlet and think live action stereo 3d will be huge for lower end media content . 2009 and 2010 will be huge mad scramble for stereo 3d. The Form factor price points and functionality are simply too irresistible. The Scarlet range will cover every aspect of the food chain, and I have no doubt that the adult entertainment industry will be clamoring for 3d, in that sector alone easily 5000 Scarlets.

In a recession the middle market tends to shrink, high end stays the same and low end of the market grows. I don’t think there will be any slow down in the demand for media content. Epic and Scarlet are really on the money.

However you might be right about some of the rental houses.

It's usually tom dick and harry who come and spoil the party. I see stereo 3d as being much more complicated and needs more attention to detail than just grabbing a camera and shooting.

Do you think audiences want to suffer through a slew of bad indie films in stereo 3d? Isn't that what spoiled it last time?

I wonder if the general public is more interested in seeing stereo 3d than actually making their own vacation videos in stereo 3d.