Network approved cameras

[Ian Planchon]

Someone mentioned "Deadliest Catch." I don't know the genesis of that show, but ongoing production uses fairly low end cameras. Its because of the environment. They literally lose cameras overboard, and have them damaged by water and salt all the time. I once heard, though I can't confirm of course, that they go through as many as 10 cameras an episode. I think a lot of the show is shot on very low end cameras as a result.

yeah, the go through a ton of cameras on that shoot. the point I was making is that discovery doesn't limit you to a camera if there is a good story (deadliest catch has the added benefit of being in a treacherous environment as well). I think that show "little people, big world" was shot on the JVC HD100/200.

it seems like the RED shoot be an accepted format though, being a higher resolution that all the cameras on their gold list. maybe someday soon.

 

[Rob Ruffo]

Interesting take on the major Doc channels. My wife is currently pitching a Cranberry Doc all shot on a Cannon XL HD camera and is getting good reception from them. She started shooting this before we got the Red. So I do not think it is always about what gear you have, sometimes the story is key.

Since shooting Red and XDCAM i find I sell a lot of stock of both formats, and yes, even some to Discovery shooters looking for something unique, which footage from Afghanistan still seems to be. This has been my best selling stuff as the Major news crews do not venture far out from either the military group they are with or from Kabul. While I may be crazy and head out into the wild so to speak.

So IMHO, depends on how you are approaching them, I think if it is with a pitch and you then go shoot, yes, they have there rules. If it is a finished piece, and its good, its seems the door is always open. But of course they have their editing style, which is a whole new can of worms.

Ron

The story IS key. Shoot something great, and they will buy it. Period (well, not if it's DSLR - that really doesn't broadcast well and hogs too much bandwidth due to aliasing, but anything else.) There are two different meetings: One when you are planning prod, and another when you are selling finished product. If you are selling finished product they just look at that, not what it may or may not have been shot on.

 

[Jeffrey T. Morgan]

They are in town, and I generally don't work with them because of what I've heard about them- which is second hand usually, and because most producers with a Discovery project try to low-ball me.

i would be careful not to limit yourself. Discovery hires out almost ALL of their work. It may go mostly to the same several production companies, but there are all sorts of people who work for them. Most likely it is THEIR reputation that is bad. I have now worked with 2 companies... actually 3 and they all were great or appear to be going great.



Rob, even as the new owner of a 550d, i would never think DSLR good for anything more than shorts and indie features... despite what Gregory House says, lol. So I totally agree.



From the specs, if Scarlet is literally HALF as good as it is supposed to be, it should meet all requirements. It just needs to exist.

Not to mention epic!

Jeff

 

[Emiliano Ranzani]

PHOTOGRAPHED (HD GOLD):
Aspect Ratio - 16:9 HD
Shooting Format - HDCAM SR / HDCAM / DVC PRO HD
Standard (resolution / scanning method / frame rate – 1080i 59.94 / 1080i 50 / 1080 Psf 23.98 / 1080 Psf 25 / 720 P 59.94 / 720 P 50 / 720 P 25 / 720 P 23.98

PHOTOGRAPHED (HD SILVER & BRONZE):
Aspect Ratio - 16:9 HD
Shooting Format - HDCAM SR / HDCAM / DVC PRO HD / HDV / XDCAM HD 35 megabit
Standard (resolution / scanning method / frame rate – 1080i 59.94 / 1080i 50 / 1080 Psf 23.98 / 1080 Psf 25 / 720 P 59.94 / 720 P 50 / 720 P 25 / 720 P 23.98

It's pretty weird (to me at least) seeing HDV and XDCAM HD being put on the same level - while the bit-rate isn't that different, XDCAM HD 35 Mb looks way better than HDV.

Also, does the HVX200\201 qualify for GOLD level?

 

[Ronald Reddick]

Agree with you
Right now the Sony PDW700 shooting XDCAM at 4/4/4 is THE broadcast camera everyone want for ENG work. The images are stunning for a 2/3 sensor system, that and the 350 are all we use now here for our news, interviews, Short form Docs, and even some of our live shows such as music and cooking shows. Our longer form stuff I tend to shoot myself when I can on the RED.

No way does HDV even come close, and imo it even beats out HDCAM SR

Ron

 

[Emiliano Ranzani]

I still come across professionals who are despising the XDCAM system, most of them considering it just another strain of HDV.
While I am not devoted to any format or manufacturer, I think Sony did a pretty good job with its tapless HD format, as it provides great images but it's still light enough to fit the needs of broadcast work.

 

[Ian Planchon]

It's pretty weird (to me at least) seeing HDV and XDCAM HD being put on the same level - while the bit-rate isn't that different, XDCAM HD 35 Mb looks way better than HDV.

Also, does the HVX200\201 qualify for GOLD level?

I don't think they put hdv on the same level. it falls under bronze status, while XDCAM HD 35Mb is under silver, and XDCAM HD 50Mb is under gold.

the hvx200 would not fall under silver or gold because its 1/3" chips.

 

[Ian Planchon]

and just out of curiosity, how much does your typical RED weigh? everyone keeps talking about how heavy it is. with body, a zoom lens (lets say 17-50mm) red drive and battery, rails and a mattebox, are we talking 30lbs or so?

 

[M Most]

Agree with you
Right now the Sony PDW700 shooting XDCAM at 4/4/4 is THE broadcast camera everyone want for ENG work.

There is no such thing as 4:4:4 XDCam. XDCam codecs only come in two flavors, 4:2:2 and 4:2:0. There are different bit rates, and the 700, for instance, can encode in the higher 50Mb rate.

 

[James Brundige]

I still come across professionals who are despising the XDCAM system, most of them considering it just another strain of HDV.
While I am not devoted to any format or manufacturer, I think Sony did a pretty good job with its tapless HD format, as it provides great images but it's still light enough to fit the needs of broadcast work.

I shoot nature and outdoors, so the amount of detail I am dealing with is extreme. Blowing grass and sunlight through tree leaves are the compression busters I see every day.

FWIW, here's what I have seen, all charts and zone plates aside:

HDCAM SR: Pretty good, though clearly an old codec. Occasionally can see compression artifacts. It's really too bad this has become the HD broadcast standard, but Sony had it out there first, and used there broadcast hardware domination to establish it before others could get in the door.

XDCAM - A very well done next generation codec. Very efficient, good color flow. I understand why this has become a common acquisition format.

HDV - Are you kidding? How Discovery puts this anywhere near XDCAM is a mystery. Lots of artifacts, easily overwhelmed, color border problems. UGLY!

RED RAW - I work mostly in 36. Best of them all, better tone transitions. Can be downresolved well to any broadcast format. Looking forward to the dynamic range improvements of MX, which blow all these other formats away.

I have not worked much with the Panasonic codecs. Technically, I'm surprised at the investment in 720p, but it looks fine on broadcast.

 

[Peter Osinski]

from Discovery's HD Theater Producer Guidelines:

We broadcast in 1080i 59.94 with 5.1 surround sound. We accept content acquired in any of the major HD formats and frame rates, provided you clearly define the post path you will take for mastering.

In 2007 and beyond, we require programs to be mastered to HDCam SR.

Only 25% of non-HD footage is allowed per episode and NO DV or small-format video is permitted. Included in this 25% non-HD is 16mm transfer, as well as any other non-HD format. The non-HD footage must not air for more than one minute at a time.

We allow up to 15% HDV material, provided the combined HDV and non-HD material does not exceed 30% of the program.

If your proposal is greenlit by HD Theater, you will be provided more detailed technical specifications as well as a list of our required deliverables from your assigned production manager. These detailed specs are not provided during the editorial development stages.

However, if you are currently a DCI contracted producer, you can access more detailed information regarding our HD requirements in the Production Management Department Production Guide located on this website. Return to the Producer's Portal homepage and click on "The Production Guide". If you are registered with ESubmissions, you do not need to register again. Contact your DCI Production Manager to be granted access to the Production Guide and you will be able to use the same User Name and Password.

 

[Peter Osinski]

"any of the major HD formats and frame rates" seems pretty vague. I think that if you had a sample of work from RED, mastered in the appropriate format, you could easily make a case....unless your content totally sucks of course but thats besides the point

 

[Rob Ruffo]

There is no such thing as 4:4:4 XDCam. XDCam codecs only come in two flavors, 4:2:2 and 4:2:0. There are different bit rates, and the 700, for instance, can encode in the higher 50Mb rate.

So can even the EX1 with an el-cheapo (3K) Nanoflash. Problem solved.

 

[Emiliano Ranzani]

I don't think they put hdv on the same level. it falls under bronze status, while XDCAM HD 35Mb is under silver, and XDCAM HD 50Mb is under gold.

the hvx200 would not fall under silver or gold because its 1/3" chips.

That makes more sense. What's the amount of "silver level" footage that can be included in a show?

Funnily, most of the XDCAM-haters I've met do consider the HVX200 superior to it (especially to the EX line), despite the small sensors and 960x720 resolution, mostly just because of the heavier bit-rate.

"any of the major HD formats and frame rates" seems pretty vague.

I agree.

 

[Ian Planchon]

That makes more sense. What's the amount of "silver level" footage that can be included in a show?

I believe silver status means you can use the cameras for 100% of the production. I have an EX3 and even without the nano flash its allowed to shoot an entire show for discovery. bronze is limited to a certain amount (as stated above).

 

[Ronald Reddick]

My Bad,

yes it is correct the Sony does 422 CBR at 50Mb/s. Do not know what I was thinking, but imo it still looks better then HDV by a long shot, just like Red, bigger sensor, more data to start with then HDV cameras, even if you compare data rates.

Ron

 

[Rob Ruffo]

"any of the major HD formats and frame rates" seems pretty vague. I think that if you had a sample of work from RED, mastered in the appropriate format, you could easily make a case....unless your content totally sucks of course but thats besides the point

If your show looks good and is fun to watch, within reason, they are in business to make money, not to quibble over cameras. Can you imagine if you brought them their next hit show in ultra-clean 1080p and they said no because they used to not like Red based on build 1 experiences? Hopefully, you cannot imagine that ever happening - it never will.

Shoot Red well and it can look fantastic. I would not foresee any problems. Send-out crews are another matter - but even then, deliver godo footage and they'll smile and pay you.

 

[Jeffrey T. Morgan]

I now plan to get my Scarlet, in hand, as soon as Red lets a non-Red One owner like me, and shoot a diverse palate. I will then have it mastered to HDCam SR and see if I can get it QCed through the Discovery Channel... channels. I will let people know how it goes...

someday.

Jeff

 

[Andrew Young]

The Red One is on NGTs approved list of primary HD cameras.

 

[Chris Pickle]

Nat Geo has a very successful travel show shot on the HVX. It's won cinematography awards. Huge hit. Departures.

If you shoot a great show very well, anyone will buy it.